Player Associations Archive

Thread: The Comparison of Guild Features in past an present Online Games

BadMisterFrosty
Wed Dec 29, 2004 8:55 am
#1







MMORPG Guilds: Comparison


As requested several times, I compiled a list of features from different games in order to compare them to each other. This might give us (and the developers) some more ideas on the different roles of guilds in these games and might help to enhance the situation for us. I want to carve out their specifics and the differences to star wars galaxies.


Of course, its only my point of view right now. If you have more information or a more personal approach than I am able to provide, feel free and add your experience below.


Please discuss these features in Guild Features: Discussion Area [click]



Anarchy Online


Anarchy Onlines provides several forms of governing the organisation which is the term for guilds. There is nearly anything you can think of feudalism, department, monarchy, anarchism, republic and faction. The leader sets the governing form and with it determines the number of ranks and their names and the associated rights. For example, feudalism provides the 4 ranks lord, knight, vassal and peasant. In feudalism only the lord can recruit new members. It does not provide the flexibility of SWG but I like the approach that you have working rulesets. The list seems to be large enough that every guild will find a ruleset which fits their needs. They avoid problems with titles, as you cannot change them.


Guilds are created per command. The guild leader is able to set public guild information, like guild history, guild objective text and description. Promotion and demotion works via command. Every member is able to promote another member up to a rank below his own rank. The leader is the only person to promote someone to the same level, which makes the new person leader. Rank and the above information is visible when examining a player with /org info. Another feature is a poll/vote-system, where certain ranks can start a poll and members vote. It is accessible via command and can be stopped manually.


Anarchy Online also provides several guild account features. The leader can set taxes, add or remove credits from the account. A neat feature is the payout for members. All members get the amount specified from the org bank. This is for sure useful not only if you want to dissolve the guild. Members can use a command to see what they owe their guild, it will be auto paid after a two hours timer (information was unclear). All features are accesible via command.


An organisation can have organisation HQs. They have more functionality than SWG guild halls, they are designed for guids with gathering and conference rooms, lounge and so on. Organisations are able to create organisation cities, the content around this seems to be strong PvE based. They are able to install structures against alien invasion and stuff like that.


Anarchy Online Orga-HQ screenshots: http://www.buegesoft.net/AOWisdom.aspx?page=shots&s=6




Earth and Beyond byatytula


How to start the guild: Get 5 players who are all level 15 or higher (150 was the maximum level) group together and the group leader can then use a command to form a guild.


Player number restriction: None


Ranking System: The game shipped with preset ranks but about 6 months later, they were allowed to have 10 ranks. Each rank had promotion/demotion rules that could be configured by the leader and the leader could name the ranks. The rank of the player was visible in the guild list.


Recruiting: It was easy to recruit members in Earth and Beyond. If you were of a rank that could recruit, you would type the recruit command and they would be entered into the guild (as the lowest rank). You could be on the opposite side of the accessible galaxy and still be able to recruit someone.


Guild Ranking: Every player contributed towards the guild ranking. The guild ranking would keep track of the amount of xp, credits, etc.. earned by the guild members and the guilds would be ranked in each area and given an overall rank. This gave a bit of competition between the guilds, though it gave large guilds an advantage (I was part of the largest guild in the game, and we were also ranked #1).


Guild List: Yes, there was a guild list. You could filter the list to only those that are online. The list contained statistics about each player in the guild, including how much experience and suchthey have earned for the guild. The list would also say when the player joined the guild.


Friend Tracker: If your friend was online and they wanted to advertise there location, if you opened your friends list, it would tell you what sector they were in.


Guild Stats: The guild statistics were extractable from the game through an interface made available to the leaders (I don't have specifics as I didn't have access to this interface). This allowed guild leaders to maintain a website that contained information about the guild members (what level they were, what race and profession and what they contributed to the guild). This wasn't that big of a deal for small guilds, but guilds with over 2000 members, it was useful to create login IDs into forums and such.



Lineage II


Clans in lineage II have at least 10 members and can have up to 40. A clan is an achievement, each feature must be earned. There are leader skills, clan levels and thus you cannot just create a clan via command. The creation works via NPCs. While a clan can earn much features, there are penalities if you leave a clan or the clan dissolves, equal to one death. It also limits your recruitment. If a member leaves a clan, he cannot join another clan for five days. You cannot create another clan after dissolving for a number of days and so on. You see, it is very strict. On the other hand, there are very neat features.


Clan leaders are able to learn leader skills which are the management tools we know from star wars galaxies. Features like warehouses, clan crests are unlocked via clan quests (raise the clan level). Clans own castles, and the leader gathers skills to conquer enemy strongholds. Later they are able to interact with certain magical objects and they exclusivly own wyverns (sort of dragon) as their mounts. While the castle stuff is pvp gameplay, they have certain castle rights like gate opening plus clan halls and known features from other games alike.


There is also a ton of information visibl clan leader name, clan skill level, current stats, clan members with delegated authority, current members who are online and their character levels are internal. clan leader name, clan skill level, castles and clan houses in possession, and current clan status is public information.



Everquestby Lorander


The first is the EQ guild management tool. In EQ, every guild member has access to it, but only officers can make changes. It is also available globally (would probably tie it to guild terminals if it came to SWG). Some of the cool features of this tool are: it lists everyone in the Guild, the last time they were logged in, class and level and race, if they are on currently, where they are if they are on, and a notes section. In the notes, a Guild officer can place public notes (everyone in Guild can see) or private notes (only officiers can see). Class and level would have to be modified or removed. All of the other aspects would be valuable to any guild.


The next item that could be used here from EQ is the persistant chat channel. You can create a semi-permanant chat channel, by assigning a password to it. This allows for multi-guild channels, auction channels, etc. There is also a feature to automatically join a channel when logging on.


EQ also has a few different types of pregenerated chats that act like spatial, but can be shut off, like auction and OOC (out-of-character). A local auction channel would allow starport spammers to continue to hawk their wares, but allow those who do not want to hear the ability to turn it off without ignoring each individual.



Everquest II by Rothin


In Everquest 2, it's using almost all the same features of EQ except it has added onto the system as well. Guilds in EQ2 have multiple levels they can strive for and you gain guild experience by completing city writs (quests) given by NPCs in your city. As the guild moves up in levels it gains additional features. You get prestige points which you can spend on special items as well as a special 'guild raid' for each 5 levels you move up. The quests scale based on your characters level as well to make sure they stay challenging. When you move up really high, you gain access to special housing which in EQ = Status more so than storage like in SWG. The way the system is designed though, if you want to level the guild you have to dedicate nearly all your time to it, it's a little too powergamer oriented, but, that's what EQ is about.


EQ2 stil has all the features of the Guild window as well. Your level, class, current zone, last time logged on, rank in the guild, whether you're a patron or not. It also shows the Guild Message of the Day at the top which is editable by the leader. You can also have multiple leaders in the guild at the same time if you wish, each havnig equal control. You can promote others to Officers and then they can recruit people. All commands are done via command as well.




Dark Ages of Camelot


Dark Ages of Camelot has a ten rank system, you need to pay to create a guild and you are able to choose a guild crest which offers some variations of symbols. I leave it to you to add a full list of features.




World of Warcraft


The core features are guild crests and XML data to implement in your guilds site. I hope someone playing the game can add a few more details.





City of Heroes


The game around comic super heroesoffer guild like features called a supergroup. To makeup a new supergroup, a character need to reach level 10 (not exactly a newbie, but not too high). He must then visit an NPC to form the supergroup. As far as I had tested it, you are able to promote and demote other characters but also give out ranks with approriate rights (~leader). Thisaspects (+supergroup chats etc) are very functional without embellishment. The cool feature of a supergroup is to have a supergroup-costume (kinda uniform). You need to set allowed colors and a symbol. The symbol and colors are based on the character creator, where you create your complete superhero (w/ costume, symbols etc).


As a member of the supergroup you can then call a menu where you switch your original costume colors for each variable to the allowed supergroup colors and make'your' version of the costume.Dependent of the settings made by the founder you can choose from more than one colors, or e.g your boots must be black. This way each member can make his costume fit with the supergroups-color-code. The supergroup symbol will always be visible on your chest, but you can eventually choose fromcolors. It isreplacing your personal superhero symbol then.With one click in the supergroup menu you swap your personal and supergroup costume (colors) anytime you want. You can also tweak the costume by making the allowed changes anytime you want, if you feelanother colorfits better with for your tights.


However, this is very city of heroes specific, I wanted to describe it.


Not exactly a guilds feature, but outstanding for group play soI mention it: you can easily activate missions you got from NPCs you want to work on(similar in fuction to SWG, but interface ismuch better).If you are grouped, you have access to the active missions of all other groupmates (if they have activated them on their screen). So you can make them active on your screen too and see all the information. Mission targets are often instanced dungeons like sewers which fitseamless in the game world (like a drainage pipe in an alley with a grid).When you click on the grid, it opens andyour character runs intothe pipefollowed by quick loading screen.


Asheron's Call 2 by Isi-Lia


How to start the guild:


In Asheron's Call 2, guilds were very different from how they are in SWG or any other game I have seen.


A player may agree to take on the role of patron or vassal to another player. The relationship of patrons and vassals is called an “allegiance.” An allegiance is a semi-permanent agreement between characters. Allegiances can be broken at any time by either player but can remain in effect indefinitely if both players are satisfied with the arrangement. Your vassals and any vassals they have (and any vassals they have, and so on) are collectively known as your “followers.”



MONARCHS - Monarchs are characters who have one or more vassals but no patron.


PATRONS - Patrons are generally more experienced players who can provide advice, equipment, assistance with quests, and other services to the vassals who serve them. Patrons often teach their vassals how to survive and become self-sufficient in the hostile world of Dereth and, in turn, to recruit and develop vassals of their own.


VASSALS - Vassals reward their patrons for their mentoring by passing experience up to them. The experience a vassal generates for his or her patron is based on the amount of experience the vassal earns. However, the experience is not taken from the vassal’s experience pool; it is special experience that is generated separately. In other words, passing experience to a patron costs the vassal nothing but still rewards the patron.


Player number restriction: None (see recruiting for limitations on individual recruitment)



Ranking System: You start the game as a pesant.

Once aplayergains 2 vassels they became a Master or a Mistress.

Once you had 2 Masters or Mistresses under you you became a Lord or a Lady.

Once you have 4 Lords or Ladies under you you became Night (cant remember the name for the female night)

With 6 Nights under you you could become a Prince or Princess

WIth 8 Pinces or Princess you became a King or Queen

a As your vassel's rankprogressed your rank increased.


Recruiting: You may have only one patron and up to twelve direct vassals. Each of your vassals can have his or her own vassals.

You must be level 3 to have a vassel.

At level 5 you can hold 2 vassals

At level 10 you can hold 3 vassals

At level 15 you can hold 5 vassals

At level 20 you can hold 6 vassals

At level 25 you can hold 7 vassals

At level 30 you can hold 8 vassals

At level 35 you can hold 9 vassals

At level 40 you can hold 10 vassals

At level 45 you can hold 11 vassals

At level 49 you can hold 12 vassals


Guild Ranking: None


Guild List: The guild list was a tree that you could see who was who's vassel & patron, the full guild list was able to be downloaded by the monarch. A patron could remove any player that was their vassals or under them in the guild tree. The Monarch could remove any player. When removing players you also lost any vassals sworn to them.


Friend Tracker: There was a friends list. To add a friend you had to have visual contact with them and added them by clicking add as friend.


Guild Stats: none


Final Note


Thats it for now. I hope you add your information or comments to this list, so we can get an overview of what is possible and working (and cool) at the moment



Updated!:


Message Edited by BadMisterFrosty on 02-07-2005 07:58 AM

Message Edited by BadMisterFrosty on 02-07-2005 08:00 AM



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Rothin
Wed Dec 29, 2004 11:35 am
#2




BadMisterFrosty wrote:

Everquest


I found a lone post by Lorander so I just want to quote it:


The first is the EQ guild management tool. In EQ, every guild member has access to it, but only officers can make changes. It is also available globally (would probably tie it to guild terminals if it came to SWG). Some of the cool features of this tool are: it lists everyone in the Guild, the last time they were logged in, class and level and race, if they are on currently, where they are if they are on, and a notes section. In the notes, a Guild officer can place public notes (everyone in Guild can see) or private notes (only officiers can see). Class and level would have to be modified or removed. All of the other aspects would be valuable to any guild.


The next item that could be used here from EQ is the persistant chat channel. You can create a semi-permanant chat channel, by assigning a password to it. This allows for multi-guild channels, auction channels, etc. There is also a feature to automatically join a channel when logging on.


This can already be done inSWG. Chat channels are persistant unless deleted by the creator and they can also be set to be moderated so only those invited can join them. They're also defaulted to auto join I believe, if not I know there is a command to have it to it for you. I auto join my Cities chat channel everyday I log in, though its rarely used.


EQ also has a few different types of pregenerated chats that act like spatial, but can be shut off, like auction and OOC (out-of-character). A local auction channel would allow starport spammers to continue to hawk their wares, but allow those who do not want to hear the ability to turn it off without ignoring each individual.


I think here he is referring to the ability to decide everything about your chat in EQ. You can filter things to such a degree as you only see precisely what you want to. IE, for Combat you can see just people hitting you, you hitting others, your spells, their spells hitting you, their spells hitting someone else, their critical hits, your critical hits, etc.. or any combo of the above. I wish something like this was in SWG for sure because I'd LOVE to filter my chat more like that. Too many things are limped into "System messages" or "Spatial" that shouldn't be and I can disable them. Or how your tells show in EVERY window even if you filter out instant messages.





In Everquest 2, it's using almost all the same features of EQ except it has added onto the system as well. Guilds in EQ2 have multiple levels they can strive for and you gain guild experience by completing city writs (quests) given by NPCs in your city. As the guild moves up in levels it gains additional features. You get prestige points which you can spend on special items as well as a special 'guild raid' for each 5 levels you move up. The quests scale based on your characters level as well to make sure they stay challenging. When you move up really high, you gain access to special housing which in EQ = Status more so than storage like in SWG. The way the system is designed though, if you want to level the guild you have to dedicate nearly all your time to it, it's a little too powergamer oriented, but, that's what EQ is about.


EQ2 stil has all the features of the Guild window as well. Your level, class, current zone, last time logged on, rank in the guild, whether you're a patron or not. It also shows the Guild Message of the Day at the top which is editable by the leader. You can also have multiple leaders in the guild at the same time if you wish, each havnig equal control. You can promote others to Officers and then they can recruit people. All commands are done via command as well.





Rothin Skyshrine

Retired Galactic Senator
Former Player Association Correspondent
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."

atytula
Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:44 pm
#3




Rothin wrote:



This can already be done inSWG. Chat channels are persistant unless deleted by the creator and they can also be set to be moderated so only those invited can join them. They're also defaulted to auto join I believe, if not I know there is a command to have it to it for you. I auto join my Cities chat channel everyday I log in, though its rarely used.






The persistant chat is very buggy in SWG. The owner of the chat channel changes based on the first person to login to it during that session. It doesn't require a password as was mentioned in EQ and the autologin doesn't work properly. You can leave a channel, and the next time you login, you are back in that channel.


I am currently trying out WoW and I will report back what I can soon. I don't have time right now, but I will describe how Earth and Beyond handled guilds.



Rothin, can you sticky this?






General Kazar Racillen, Master Smuggler
Echo Battalion CO (Eclipse)
http://www.echobattalion.com
Rothin
Wed Dec 29, 2004 12:53 pm
#4




atytula wrote:




Rothin wrote:



This can already be done inSWG. Chat channels are persistant unless deleted by the creator and they can also be set to be moderated so only those invited can join them. They're also defaulted to auto join I believe, if not I know there is a command to have it to it for you. I auto join my Cities chat channel everyday I log in, though its rarely used.






The persistant chat is very buggy in SWG. The owner of the chat channel changes based on the first person to login to it during that session. It doesn't require a password as was mentioned in EQ and the autologin doesn't work properly. You can leave a channel, and the next time you login, you are back in that channel.


I will agree there, it is buggy at times but I haven't had the 'stuck even if you leave' bug for a channel in some time, but I will test it to see if it has reappeared for me. And yes, the channels don't have a password feature to them, but they can stay moderated with invite rights and once invited you can auto rejoin. (Unless this has become bugged). It has been my experience though that once created, the channel creator doesn't change. I know in a public chat, the person who made our city channel is still the creator despite that he's left the game. The Chat system has come a long way but it does still have a ways to go.


I am currently trying out WoW and I will report back what I can soon. I don't have time right now, but I will describe how Earth and Beyond handled guilds.



Rothin, can you sticky this?


Done.










Rothin Skyshrine

Retired Galactic Senator
Former Player Association Correspondent
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."

MajorXP
Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:39 pm
#5
I look forward to the day when a Dev will comment on PA development time.





C O H A V
Former Alpha Team Member & JTL/ROW/TOW/CU/NGE Beta Tester & 1025+ nonstop Vet
Guild Founder - Legend of a New Republic <LNR> - Oldest Rebel Guild on Shadowfire
SWG Expertise Calculator & Clicky Maker
Detailed account of my Wife testing NGE!! & How to use Firefox with the Forums
Pre-CU full template Jedi& Want to join LNR?


atytula
Wed Dec 29, 2004 2:59 pm
#6




Rothin wrote:



I will agree there, it is buggy at times but I haven't had the 'stuck even if you leave' bug for a channel in some time, but I will test it to see if it has reappeared for me. And yes, the channels don't have a password feature to them, but they can stay moderated with invite rights and once invited you can auto rejoin. (Unless this has become bugged). It has been my experience though that once created, the channel creator doesn't change. I know in a public chat, the person who made our city channel is still the creator despite that he's left the game. The Chat system has come a long way but it does still have a ways to go.






I know when they first made channels persistant, that when everyone logs out of a channel/game, the channel is destroyed and when the first person auto-joins, they become the new channel owner (since it is a new channel being created). I haven't used a private channel in a few months because it was too bugged. Everytime I logged in, I would have a new tab for that channel. There were times that I had 6 tabs all for the same channel. Right now, I don't consider private channels a useful system. It would be easier if I could just type /inviteChannel PlayerName and they just have to type /joinChannel ChannelName. For somepeople, the act of joining a channel is confusing.


Also, the moderated channels, I have been unsuccesful. I invite someone into the channel but they can't say anything. They can see my messages, but they don't have write priviledges. I even make the mods on the channel and they still can't use it. There may be a command to give them "voice" rights, but I have yet to figure it out. I know that if I make a public channel, everything works fine.






General Kazar Racillen, Master Smuggler
Echo Battalion CO (Eclipse)
http://www.echobattalion.com
atytula
Wed Dec 29, 2004 3:00 pm
#7
BadMisterFrosty, since you were the creator of the post, I ask that you take any information about other games guild system and edit your post with it, so we keep an uptodate copy at the top of the post (hopefully we won't run out of room). Either that, or Rothin, create a doc of some kind containing them all so you can present them to the devs with our ideas.




General Kazar Racillen, Master Smuggler
Echo Battalion CO (Eclipse)
http://www.echobattalion.com
BadMisterFrosty
Wed Dec 29, 2004 4:06 pm
#8

I suggest both an updated version on top as work in progress and when we have a respectablelist,our compiled listdocumentcould be passed tothe developers. I added a link to a discussion area just to keep this straight on information.


I have the feeling that we could work out something, kind of vision document with ideally a few stages (so that it can be rolled out bit by bit) ...starting with the GCW update


Message Edited by BadMisterFrosty on 12-29-2004 05:42 PM



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4 GUIDE: to Focus Threads
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BadMisterFrosty
Sat Jan 01, 2005 7:34 pm
#9

Update: City of Heroes

Message Edited by BadMisterFrosty on 01-01-2005 08:35 PM



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atytula
Mon Jan 03, 2005 9:05 pm
#10
Earth and Beyond


How to start the guild: Get 5 players who are all level 15 or higher (150 was the maximum level) group together and the group leader can then use a command to form a guild.


Player number restriction: None


Ranking System: The game shipped with preset ranks but about 6 months later, they were allowed to have 10 ranks. Each rank had promotion/demotion rules that could be configured by the leader and the leader could name the ranks. The rank of the player was visible in the guild list.


Recruiting: It was easy to recruit members in Earth and Beyond. If you were of a rank that could recruit, you would type the recruit command and they would be entered into the guild (as the lowest rank). You could be on the opposite side of the accessible galaxy and still be able to recruit someone.


Guild Ranking: Every player contributed towards the guild ranking. The guild ranking would keep track of the amount of xp, credits, etc.. earned by the guild members and the guilds would be ranked in each area and given an overall rank. This gave a bit of competition between the guilds, though it gave large guilds an advantage (I was part of the largest guild in the game, and we were also ranked #1).


Guild List: Yes, there was a guild list. You could filter the list to only those that are online. The list contained statistics about each player in the guild, including how much experience and suchthey have earned for the guild. The list would also say when the player joined the guild.


Friend Tracker: If your friend was online and they wanted to advertise there location, if you opened your friends list, it would tell you what sector they were in.


Guild Stats: The guild statistics were extractable from the game through an interface made available to the leaders (I don't have specifics as I didn't have access to this interface). This allowed guild leaders to maintain a website that contained information about the guild members (what level they were, what race and profession and what they contributed to the guild). This wasn't that big of a deal for small guilds, but guilds with over 2000 members, it was useful to create login IDs into forums and such.




General Kazar Racillen, Master Smuggler
Echo Battalion CO (Eclipse)
http://www.echobattalion.com
BadMisterFrosty
Tue Jan 04, 2005 9:17 am
#11
E&B is in.



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4 GUIDE: to Focus Threads
4 BRAINSTORM: GCW METAGAME
4 PROPOSAL: MILITARY STRUCTURES TO SET UP STRONGHOLDS

ÐARKSTALKER IMPERIAL INQUISITION

CourtJester73
Sat Jan 08, 2005 4:50 pm
#12
WoW has some nice features such as a guild tab which lists basic information such as profession and online status for all members in the guild. Also, you can invite a new guild member from anywhere, no need to be near a terminal. It was quite a shock to be all alone in the woods and all of a sudden have a guild-invite pop up on my screen. Also, the guild tabard is a nice option. Only people in a guild have the ability to wear one and it is designed by the guild leader and made available as a money sink for the game as it is quite expensive to create as well as to purchase once you are in the guild.


Next time I'm bored in SWG I'll pop over there again and gather more info for you as I really like some of the options there.



Gaarawarr - Elder Creature Handler, Leader of the Order of the Crimson Blade
DeusEx Machina - Elder Rifleman
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Repio James - Commando
Gaarawar (Mini-me) - Officer in training
Order of the Crimson Blade
Garabaldi
Tue Jan 11, 2005 10:46 pm
#13
Rothin, do we have a timeline or ANYTHING at all on when any of these features could make it into the game? It's been over a year now, I'm surprised they haven't touched their shallow PA system.
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