Player Associations Archive
Thread: TH: Please Help! Have reached a brick wall with CS and a bugged PA
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Neyland
Fri Feb 06, 2004 7:27 am
#1
Email as it occured:
From: Neyland [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 8:59 AM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Ticket 1532542
This is in reference to tickets:
Unknown: Unanswered and deleted. Ticket placed thee weeks after live launch.
Unknown: Answered but unable to fix the issue, account was supposed to be commented about issue.
1392716 - [email protected] who turned it over to another CSR because of the time difference issue. Was told to delete the PA and reform it with CSR assistance. Ticket just disappeared without notice. Waited over 3 weeks without CSR contact.
1512380 - Was told by the CSR that if the PA was disbanded that another PA could not be formed with the same name as the disbanded PA. Was told the ticket 1392716 was probably deleted because it went two weeks without comment. This ticket mysteriously deleted itself.
1532542 - Current ticket.
1. I want to know how it is possible that ticket 1392716 went two weeks with a CSR unable to contact me in game when they knew my play schedule.
2. How did the second ticket just up and delete itself? Who deleted the ticket and why?
3. The situation is as follows:
Our PA was formed in game very early on. I have always been the leader. When I set up the PA, I gave invite rights to officers and declare war rights to my 2nd. One day I logged in to find I was no longer a member of the PA. I was still listed as the leader of the PA however. I logged a ticket on the issue but NEVER heard from a CSR on it and the ticket deleted itself. So, I had an officer invite me back into the PA. That's when I found out that even as a member listed as the leader I don't have terminal access rights.
Logged a ticket. Actually got a CSR this time who told me that there really wasn't much they could do. That the game was to early in it's stages and the CSRs weren't given rights at this time by the developers to effect anything ingame. There were just there really to handle lost items and stuck issues. That he could delete the PA but that he couldn't promise that we could get the same name because the DB was bugged at times. However, that the issue was a know bug and the devs were working on a fix for it. But that he had made his manager aware of the problem, and that they had commented my account with the issue for future reference. He recommended that we wait a few weeks and a CSR would contact us when a fix was in place.
We waited until December to try and deal with the issue again. A full 6 months later. We continue to carry un purged members on our rosters and members who have gone on to play on other servers (European people). We have a significant amount of time and real money invested in the organization name. We would like to request that the issue be resolved at this time. We feel 6 months is long enough to wait on this issue. It is a bug that should be able to be fixed by a member of the Sony team, whether that be a CSR, a DBA, or an actual developer. I would venture to say that it's just a matter of bugged data in the DB that needs to be cleaned.
My play times are typically M-TH 8pm-11pm est. Fri-Sun off and on through the day and night est. In the past all CSR issues have been PST. This is an EST server and I would request EST service.
I have two accounts. They are Smitty, Lowca and Neyland, Lowca.
You requested that I delete the ticket ingame because this issue is being handled via email. I plan on commenting the ticket that this email was sent as requested and leaving it in place until conclusion has been reached on the issue.
Thank you
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 8:59 AM
To: [email protected]
Cc: [email protected]
Subject: Ticket 1532542
This is in reference to tickets:
Unknown: Unanswered and deleted. Ticket placed thee weeks after live launch.
Unknown: Answered but unable to fix the issue, account was supposed to be commented about issue.
1392716 - [email protected] who turned it over to another CSR because of the time difference issue. Was told to delete the PA and reform it with CSR assistance. Ticket just disappeared without notice. Waited over 3 weeks without CSR contact.
1512380 - Was told by the CSR that if the PA was disbanded that another PA could not be formed with the same name as the disbanded PA. Was told the ticket 1392716 was probably deleted because it went two weeks without comment. This ticket mysteriously deleted itself.
1532542 - Current ticket.
1. I want to know how it is possible that ticket 1392716 went two weeks with a CSR unable to contact me in game when they knew my play schedule.
2. How did the second ticket just up and delete itself? Who deleted the ticket and why?
3. The situation is as follows:
Our PA was formed in game very early on. I have always been the leader. When I set up the PA, I gave invite rights to officers and declare war rights to my 2nd. One day I logged in to find I was no longer a member of the PA. I was still listed as the leader of the PA however. I logged a ticket on the issue but NEVER heard from a CSR on it and the ticket deleted itself. So, I had an officer invite me back into the PA. That's when I found out that even as a member listed as the leader I don't have terminal access rights.
Logged a ticket. Actually got a CSR this time who told me that there really wasn't much they could do. That the game was to early in it's stages and the CSRs weren't given rights at this time by the developers to effect anything ingame. There were just there really to handle lost items and stuck issues. That he could delete the PA but that he couldn't promise that we could get the same name because the DB was bugged at times. However, that the issue was a know bug and the devs were working on a fix for it. But that he had made his manager aware of the problem, and that they had commented my account with the issue for future reference. He recommended that we wait a few weeks and a CSR would contact us when a fix was in place.
We waited until December to try and deal with the issue again. A full 6 months later. We continue to carry un purged members on our rosters and members who have gone on to play on other servers (European people). We have a significant amount of time and real money invested in the organization name. We would like to request that the issue be resolved at this time. We feel 6 months is long enough to wait on this issue. It is a bug that should be able to be fixed by a member of the Sony team, whether that be a CSR, a DBA, or an actual developer. I would venture to say that it's just a matter of bugged data in the DB that needs to be cleaned.
My play times are typically M-TH 8pm-11pm est. Fri-Sun off and on through the day and night est. In the past all CSR issues have been PST. This is an EST server and I would request EST service.
I have two accounts. They are Smitty, Lowca and Neyland, Lowca.
You requested that I delete the ticket ingame because this issue is being handled via email. I plan on commenting the ticket that this email was sent as requested and leaving it in place until conclusion has been reached on the issue.
Thank you
From: Bacalski, Ryan [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 7:07 PM
To: 'Neyland'
Subject: RE: Ticket 1532542
Greetings Neyland,
In order to fix your issue with your PA you will have to disband your guild. That name should be available to you in seven days after the disband.
If you have anymore questions please feel free to reply to this e-mail.
Thank you for playing Star Wars Galaxies.
CSR-RyanB
Sony Online Entertainment
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 7:07 PM
To: 'Neyland'
Subject: RE: Ticket 1532542
Greetings Neyland,
In order to fix your issue with your PA you will have to disband your guild. That name should be available to you in seven days after the disband.
If you have anymore questions please feel free to reply to this e-mail.
Thank you for playing Star Wars Galaxies.
CSR-RyanB
Sony Online Entertainment
From: Neyland [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 7:41 PM
To: 'Bacalski, Ryan'
Subject: RE: Ticket 1532542
Ryan,
You claim that the name should be available in seven days. Is there a way to guarantee that the name will be available for us and us alone? Is there not a way to simply update the db to give me the permissions I should have already?
From: Bacalski, Ryan [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 10:43 PM
To: 'Neyland'
Subject: RE: Ticket 1532542
Perhaps you want to meet in game and discuss this. If you tell me your server and character name I am free right now.
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 7:41 PM
To: 'Bacalski, Ryan'
Subject: RE: Ticket 1532542
Ryan,
You claim that the name should be available in seven days. Is there a way to guarantee that the name will be available for us and us alone? Is there not a way to simply update the db to give me the permissions I should have already?
From: Bacalski, Ryan [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 10:43 PM
To: 'Neyland'
Subject: RE: Ticket 1532542
Perhaps you want to meet in game and discuss this. If you tell me your server and character name I am free right now.
From: Neyland [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2004 8:21 PM
To: 'Bacalski, Ryan'
Subject: RE: Ticket 1532542
I will log in now. I was just about to turn in for the night.
I will be Smitty on the Lowca server.
From: Bacalski, Ryan [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 12:32 AM
To: 'Neyland'
Subject: RE: Ticket 1532542
Greetings Neyland,
As per our conversation in game, I have given you my supervisors e-mail address. So that you have a hard copy of this address I have included it in this e-mail, [email protected]
CSR-RyanB
Sony Online Entertainment
-----Original Message-----
From: Neyland [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 11:15 AM
To: [email protected]
Cc: 'Bacalski, Ryan'
Subject: RE: Ticket 1532542
Mr. Lockard,
I have a situation outlined at the foot of this email that CSR Ryan Bacalksi has been kind enough to try and assist me with. The bottom line 'solution' as posed by Ryan was to disband the online organization then attempt to reform it in seven days. However, this 'solution' gives us no guarantee that after the seven days we could reform with the same name.
As I'm sure you know, online organization names are typically rather touchy subjects. They represent time, effort, good will, and often investments in real life monies to many people. The inability to retain our name as is, is simply unacceptable to us.
As a professional software engineer/DBA I understand that sometimes support personnel do not have the tools to correct certain issues. Often situations like this can be quickly remedied with a direct database update, but the support personnel may not have rights or tools to accomplish such a task. That does not change the fact that the solution can be handled in a quick and timely manner by someone who does have the correct permissions or tools.
Ryan informed me that this is a known issue with the live development team. The problem is, this has been the same 'party line' since we tripped over the bug. That was more than 6 months ago. We feel six months is more than enough time to wait for a reasonable solution to this issue.
If you are unable to assist us in rectifying the situation, could you please give me the information I might need to continue to pursue this up the chain until I can find a reasonable solution.
I would like for you to know that Ryan was expedient and helpful in trying to deal with the solution. I felt he was honestly trying to give us the best support he could with the tools and options granted to him. He was polite and supportive of the problem. I have no issue with him at all.
Please refer to me as Matt and not my ingame names. I feel this is a customer service issue and would prefer to remain on 'real name' levels.
Thank you
From: Lockard, Tom [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 12:13 AM
To: 'Neyland'
Subject: RE: Ticket 1532542
Greetings,
Thank you for your e-mail. I sincerely apologize for the delay in a response to your request.
I understand your frustration with this particular situation. I know that the name of a Player Association is extremely important and realize that the potential for not being able to use it is disheartening. I hope that you realize we truly wish to help you as much as we can. Unfortunately we cannot assist with reservations of names, as we simply do not have the tools to do something of this nature. If someone else does take your name, we can perhaps speak to that person to see if they are willing to change based on the fact that you have been using this name for such a long time. This is the best resolution that I can offer to you, however.
I sincerely hope that you are able to resolve this without any troubles, and please let me know if you have any other questions. I apologize that we cannot directly become involved in this.
I wish you the best of luck.
Sincerely,
--------------------------------------------------------
Tom Lockard
In-Game CS Supervisor
Sony Online Entertainment
[email protected]
http://www.station.sony.com
--------------------------------------------------------
Please be sure to include all previous
correspondence when replying to this issue.
From: Neyland [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 9:19 AM
To: 'Lockard, Tom'
Subject: RE: Ticket 1532542
Tom,
Thank you for replying to my email on this issue. I understand that you don't have the ability to reserve names. I also understand that you must work within the toolsets provided to you by the developers. However, the solution to this bug provides us with no assurances that we could even keep the name should someone else not attempt to claim it. I was told that it isn't uncommon for the DB to hiccup or wherever the business rules lie not function correctly and the organization name not to be removed from the table. This would, in fact, orphan the records and keep us from reclaiming the name.
Allow me to point out that this didn't happen by something we did. There was an error in the application that caused data corruption in your database. There are two ways to correct the issue. One is to do as you suggest, remove the records as a whole and reinsert them; or update them to the correct values manually. If we use the mechanism to remove the records and something were to go wrong with either the implementation of the business rules or the weekly maintaince of the DB, would we be able to request manual intervention to rectify the situation?
As a whole, considering the investment in such names by your customers, I don't see why there isn't a better solution to this. Would it be better served to complain about it on the forums and hope one of the developers or community relations personell take pity on us and try to help? Leaving a name open for a week is like leaving a domain name open for a week. I think we all know that there are plenty of people in this would that would take the name for no other purpose other than trying to cause pain and heartache to others.
With that in mind, I would request that this be handled with a simple update to the DB to correct the corrupted records. I understand that you may not have the permissions or tools to do this, but I'm sure you know who does. If you don't know, I'm sure you can point me in the direction I might need to go. Allow me to present my case directly to them. So, if you can not assist us in this, can you please provide me with the contact information for those that may.
Thank you
Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 9:19 AM
To: 'Lockard, Tom'
Subject: RE: Ticket 1532542
Tom,
Thank you for replying to my email on this issue. I understand that you don't have the ability to reserve names. I also understand that you must work within the toolsets provided to you by the developers. However, the solution to this bug provides us with no assurances that we could even keep the name should someone else not attempt to claim it. I was told that it isn't uncommon for the DB to hiccup or wherever the business rules lie not function correctly and the organization name not to be removed from the table. This would, in fact, orphan the records and keep us from reclaiming the name.
Allow me to point out that this didn't happen by something we did. There was an error in the application that caused data corruption in your database. There are two ways to correct the issue. One is to do as you suggest, remove the records as a whole and reinsert them; or update them to the correct values manually. If we use the mechanism to remove the records and something were to go wrong with either the implementation of the business rules or the weekly maintaince of the DB, would we be able to request manual intervention to rectify the situation?
As a whole, considering the investment in such names by your customers, I don't see why there isn't a better solution to this. Would it be better served to complain about it on the forums and hope one of the developers or community relations personell take pity on us and try to help? Leaving a name open for a week is like leaving a domain name open for a week. I think we all know that there are plenty of people in this would that would take the name for no other purpose other than trying to cause pain and heartache to others.
With that in mind, I would request that this be handled with a simple update to the DB to correct the corrupted records. I understand that you may not have the permissions or tools to do this, but I'm sure you know who does. If you don't know, I'm sure you can point me in the direction I might need to go. Allow me to present my case directly to them. So, if you can not assist us in this, can you please provide me with the contact information for those that may.
Thank you
Greetings again,
I apologize once again for the delay in a response.
We have requested that a more efficient way to assist with these situations. I will pass along the request, though I cannot guarantee that our development team can assist with this problem directly.
In the meantime I can only ask for your patience. If there is anything else I can do for you, please don't hesitate to let me know.
I wish you the best of luck.
Sincerely,
--------------------------------------------------------
Tom Lockard
In-Game CS Supervisor
Sony Online Entertainment
[email protected]
http://www.station.sony.com
--------------------------------------------------------
I apologize once again for the delay in a response.
We have requested that a more efficient way to assist with these situations. I will pass along the request, though I cannot guarantee that our development team can assist with this problem directly.
In the meantime I can only ask for your patience. If there is anything else I can do for you, please don't hesitate to let me know.
I wish you the best of luck.
Sincerely,
--------------------------------------------------------
Tom Lockard
In-Game CS Supervisor
Sony Online Entertainment
[email protected]
http://www.station.sony.com
--------------------------------------------------------
Seiryuu
Fri Feb 06, 2004 10:54 am
#3
Two questions:
1) Do you have admin permission on the PA Hall still? That will prevent you from using the terminal. I assume you tried this, but just in case.
2) Can you create a new PA with the same name but with a symbol or two, such as -Player Association Name-? (I don't know if this is valid. I inherited leadership and have no desire to risk changing names.)
If you can do (2), you can keep the name relatively intact and maybe switch it back in a week or so. It is also a faster and less frustrating solution than waiting another six months for a fix.
Good luck either way.
1) Do you have admin permission on the PA Hall still? That will prevent you from using the terminal. I assume you tried this, but just in case.
2) Can you create a new PA with the same name but with a symbol or two, such as -Player Association Name-? (I don't know if this is valid. I inherited leadership and have no desire to risk changing names.)
If you can do (2), you can keep the name relatively intact and maybe switch it back in a week or so. It is also a faster and less frustrating solution than waiting another six months for a fix.
Good luck either way.
Neyland
Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:33 pm
#4
I am owner of the PA hall (which is new since we moved planets). In both the old and the new PA Hall I had no permissions to the PA terminal other than view members and assign allegience. I am currently listed as the PA leader, but have no permissions. That's the crux of the problem. We couldn't even destroy the PA without a CSR's help.
Please understand that I'm not upset or ranting about CS. I feel they have tried to help us as best they can with the options they have. I feel our situation is a little out of their control and really needs someone from operations to give us a hand. I wanted to wait until I felt we had exhausted the proper channels before attempting the long shot of garnering some attention from a developer, TH, or a correspondentin these forums.
Message Edited by Neyland on 02-06-2004 02:36 PM
Seiryuu
Fri Feb 06, 2004 3:42 pm
#5
Setting allegiance is a great idea!
You might try having everyone set it to you the first time. It's possible the default allegiance is now Null because you were kicked out of the PA. Considering null values are not overwritten elsewhere (see profession titles), it's possible there really is no leader but your name was not replaced.
Just remember it takes around a week once a majority have voted for you.
You might try having everyone set it to you the first time. It's possible the default allegiance is now Null because you were kicked out of the PA. Considering null values are not overwritten elsewhere (see profession titles), it's possible there really is no leader but your name was not replaced.
Just remember it takes around a week once a majority have voted for you.
Neyland
Fri Feb 06, 2004 4:16 pm
#6
We can try that, but we have a lot of dead weight from old accounts and people who have moved on to other servers. I'm afraid we may not have enough to vote someone else in.
We can't kick anyone. We have invite rights and declare war rights.. that's it.
But thanks for the answers and suggestions!
Jascentia
Sat Feb 07, 2004 1:59 am
#7
Greets from the PA Correspondent.
Here's a suggestion I have for you. Have your PA Declare Allegience for a trusted PA Member other than you, then after leadership changes have them declare it back to you. See if this will reset your permissions.
Another option is to kick out all but a handful of members and have the system automatically disband your guild. Then, it can be *immediately* recreated with the same name. I have done this numerous times on Test Center, but I understand you will want to avoid taking any unecessary risks.
I will keep following your issue myself until it is resolved. I hope people won't hesitate to visit this forum for help, I would never expect anyone to wait and wonder for so long!
Message Edited by Jascentia on 02-06-2004 01:00 PM
Neyland
Sat Feb 07, 2004 5:31 pm
#8
It's fixed!!!!
Tonight I had assign rights ability again. *bow* Thank you to whomever stepped in there! We all thank you!
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