Player Associations Archive
Thread: Guild Wars Discussion
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StarNick
Mon Feb 07, 2005 2:55 pm
#14
There were some further ideas that came to mind as I went to sleep last night on my substantial (to say the least) post...unfortunately now, a day later I cant remember any of them! Damn, wish I kept a notepad and a pencil on my night-table....hopefully they'll come back and smack me.
Anyways, regarding guild factions and covert/overt. Originally I was going to include them into the proposal (probably why it took an hour to write, as I had to edit and rethink the first section). They were called Govert and Gcovert, but as I got into explaining guild battlefields, it just hit me that guild factions may just be 1) Too hard to put in and 2) Could potentially be too big of a system to even be efficient.
At first (to me too), it seems like a good idea. And in many ways, it is a good idea as it resembles the GCW, but on a smaller scale for just guilds. Originally too,I envisioned where a guild faction as well as battlefields could actively co-exist, as it allows free-form PvP and some freedom (where you can wage war against one another and "raid" the other person's town).
But...wheres the war in that? A war has objectives for each side, and is not just a Free for all blood match. Guild wars with Free-form PvP doesn't really have many objectives that could be implented, and thus make guild wars just a novelity (as they are now...plus dont forget, if we want objectives in Free-Form guild PvP...that may mean the addition of Guild Bases...making the GW more like a clone of the GCW, more on that below). We don't want that, we want some reward for fighting and giving our rival guildmembers hell n punishment on a battlefield.
Thats where the Battlefields come into play. A guild war would be simple, efficient, and very rewarding. Players know exactly where to go to fight, what to do to win, and when to participate as well have a area of fun (instanced zone with guild NPCs wearing your uniforms...how cool is that?!). Having a Guild Faction system to go along with this may complicate the system or not make guild wars an easy feature of the game (we want to know as players how to do something, go for it, and spend as much of the time having fun)
That however does not mean that the two cannot co-exist...just that there would have to be a harmonious co-existance where neither system detracts from one another. Also, Im not saying that guild factions can't work without battlefields or anything like that (to be clear 
)...just that this system would definately need to be very streamlined.
)...just that this system would definately need to be very streamlined.The major features I can see with guild factions would be getting some leeway from the restrictiveness of Battlefields...such as raiding each other's cities or having cantina bar brawls or anything of that matter (however, this would not have any short-term goals...such as working as a team to bring down a base, only long term - guild prestige). But, for free-form PvP like this could also easily be implented in the form of a special ability by either group leaders or the Squad Leader Profession...where for "mock" battles Squad Leaders can "ally" themselves with other groups and "declare" another group an enemy which automatically becomes an enemy of your and your ally's groups. This could be applied to any scenario for PvP...from groups to cantina fights to practice PvP battles, and could be a slightly more flexible system.
Lastly...we also don't want (at least I dont want) the Guild Wars to become a GCW clone in any way. With Battlefields that only lets the 2 warring factions in, absolutely no changes to the new Overt/Covert/On leave system would be needed nor, and most importantly no changes to show your specific guild covert or overtness (Meaning, UI changes....as your overt or covertness is shown both ingame and in the Character Sheet....guild versions would have to be added). Also by NOT being a GCW Clone in any way, Guild Wars could recieve the attention of being a major issue (as if its too similar to GCW, you can get the arguement "Why waste time on it when you can just do it through the GCW").
The GCW and the GW are two different breeds of a war....the GCW is more of a never-ending conflict for us that is in every corner of the galaxy. It involves every city, every planet, every territory in the forms of Bases (which guilds dont have, so free-form PvP would be hindered by not having places to destroy...unlike in Battlefields), and lastly...GCW battlefields, once the devs revamp them. The GW however are short conflicts that we do see the end of. Making those conflicts fairly long lived and fun, won't detract from either a guild or a factioned experience. Not to mention, if the GW is mostly based on a guild Battlefield...who knows? It may be suitable to work on it while the devs work on GCW Battlefields...
Long winded I suppouse...but just some thoughts.
Message Edited by StarNick on 02-07-2005 04:59 PM
atytula
Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:28 pm
#15
Ok, I would like to mention that I am for any way of making guild wars more interesting and fun. So don't take what I am about to say as a negative to any opinions made, or any to come. I am just stating my opinion.
I feel that to comepletly re-write the book for guild wars is going to be problematic. It would involve a comeplete new design, and most likely new bugs. Battlefields have yet to be added back into the game for the GCW. It can be done, and if it is a good guildwar design, I will go along with it. I suggested a system based on factions because SWG already has a faction system in place and it is about to get a revamp. If we can get the developers to attach guild wars to that system, it might be something that takes little effort and gives us a fairly stable guild war system. It also gives PA leaders a mechanism to control what the guild is faction enemies with.
Example: Neutral Guild, roleplaying as a police force. The leader can declare war on the hutt faction and from that point forth, the GCW engine would make all hutt attack you on sight.
Example: Neutral Guild, roleplaying as a crimintal organization. The leader can declar war on CorSec ....
Example: Rebel Guild. The leader declares war on the Imperials, and every member of the guild is automatically considered negatively aligned to the imperials, even if they are imperial or neutral. They would not necessarilybe "Rebel" but would still be considered an enemy of the Imperials.
There are a lot of NPC war advantages to a guild faction, but there are PvP advantages too.
1. Players that don't want to PvP, don't go overt.
2. Players that don't want to PvE against the warring faction can go on leave (but loses all guild faction perks, which would be cool).
Anyway, this is my vision of guild wars. I like the ideas StarNick makes about battlefields, and will definately support the creation of instanced guildwar battlefields.
GloriousLeader
Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:50 pm
#16
Great ideas, I seriously stick by what i said in my above post on multiple FORMS of guild war, it would not only give guild war flexibility and variety and FUN! But it would create a sense of control over the decision of war, they should make guild war a slightly custimizable thing that you select, and define based on your positions as a guild.
Choice.
EvilMark
Mon Feb 14, 2005 11:11 am
#17
i like the idea of a militia. also, i personally believe that once someone is killed by the oposing guild, they should be out of the war. if anything this could be just one of several types of war, as has been proposed earlier in this thread.
atytula
Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:10 pm
#18
EvilMark wrote:
i like the idea of a militia. also, i personally believe that once someone is killed by the oposing guild, they should be out of the war. if anything this could be just one of several types of war, as has been proposed earlier in this thread.
Good suggestion EvilMark. There should be multiple types of wars guilds can declare. Each type of war could have its own set of rules.
Free for all
This type is just a typical free for all that we see in game right now. When you die, you clone and can come right back in (maybe have a 5min timer to when you can come back into battel).
Cature the Flag
Simple game of capture the flag. Each guild is given a flag that they can place. The enemy guild gets a waypoint to that flag. Then the game begins. When a player is killed he is considered dead to the war for 1 hour (but then can come back into the war if the flag has not been captured). Since this war is based on intelligence, once you are dead, the enemy players are no longer viisible to the "dead" player which prevents the dead players from sitting at the flag and giving away intel, or standing 200m away from the defending flag to give heads up to a raid. The first guild to bring the flag back to their home flag (and have both flags there) wins.
Last Man Standing
Simple rule. When you are dead, you can't come back into the war until the next round. Once one guild is eliminated, the other guild wins.
Search and Destroy
One guild gets an placeable item that the other guild needs to destroy. Rules are the same as Capture the Flag.
Assasination
One guild (or maybe both) gets to name a player as a VIP. The VIP is the target for the assasination. Houses that cannot be entered by the enemy cannot be entered by the VIP (even if he could before). The first guild to assisinate the VIP wins. The remaining rules are similar to Capture the Flag.
These are just ideas of different types of guildwars that can be implmented. Some can be integrated with features of the upcoming player event perks (like a search and destroy mission with an Xwing as the target). I think these types of wars should not be limited to guilds, but general GCW live events, and even group wars (IE: Two groups can declare a war on each other to have some intraguild fun).
GloriousLeader
Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:41 am
#19
Assasination, I like it, now that is a thought.
"Its official boys, Admiral Karrith was assasinated today when attempting to board a secure flight in the outskirts of theed. His life was taken, and we have lost our commander, and or war. . . "
*group howls together*
"Its official boys, Admiral Karrith was assasinated today when attempting to board a secure flight in the outskirts of theed. His life was taken, and we have lost our commander, and or war. . . "
*group howls together*
StarNick
Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:16 pm
#20
Hmmm aRegicide typegame could be implented too.
Where one side has a superfortress that houses an NPC that the opposing side must break in and kill to "win" the castle.
The twist here tho would be that it won't be linear. For example, there could potentially be 6 different ways in...each that has a varying level of difficulty or requires a certain profession to get through.
As for the superfortress....radar would be turned off, and most of it would be inside...the opposing side trying to make its way to their target while the defenders try and flush them out.
Sorta like Counter-Strike....
atytula
Tue Feb 15, 2005 8:20 pm
#21
StarNick wrote:
Hmmm aRegicide typegame could be implented too.
Where one side has a superfortress that houses an NPC that the opposing side must break in and kill to "win" the castle.
The twist here tho would be that it won't be linear. For example, there could potentially be 6 different ways in...each that has a varying level of difficulty or requires a certain profession to get through.
As for the superfortress....radar would be turned off, and most of it would be inside...the opposing side trying to make its way to their target while the defenders try and flush them out.
Sorta like Counter-Strike....
I like it. And when one side takes the forteress, they take over and the other side has to try to take it back
Oh, and congratz on the commando correspondant position StarNick. Well deserved I am sure 
StarNick
Tue Feb 15, 2005 9:26 pm
#22
Thanks
And to further expand on a Counter-Strike theme...
- Death Traps laid by Defenders
- Explosive Barrels you can shoot at to blow up walls/enemies
- "Weak" Walls that a commando can blow the crap out of
- Automated Gun Turret Systems!!
As for the superfortress...it could be huge. And maybe for the defenders, they get a control room where they can take control of a coridor videocam (like taking control of a turret) and survey for any intruders....for intelligence this would be their only advantage...
Not only would these be instanced, but definately give a "raid" feeling to a battle...plus have a FPS-hybrid experience!
Selkath
Thu Feb 17, 2005 6:30 am
#23
You could also make it were before the war you choose the kind of game (capture the flag, last team surviving, most kills). You also could make one were one team is defending and the other team has to bring a bomb in to the guild hall. If it goes off, the offensive team wins. But, if the offensive team can't set off the bomb in 15 minutes the defensive team wins.
atytula
Thu Feb 17, 2005 8:48 am
#24
Selkath wrote:
You could also make it were before the war you choose the kind of game (capture the flag, last team surviving, most kills). You also could make one were one team is defending and the other team has to bring a bomb in to the guild hall. If it goes off, the offensive team wins. But, if the offensive team can't set off the bomb in 15 minutes the defensive team wins.
lol, that was what my post was saying Selkath
StarNick
Thu Feb 17, 2005 4:28 pm
#25
Well...so far we're seeing a CTF style game with the new PEP stuff....
Maybe the types of games we're suggesting here could be a part of a Guild War...-and- a player event tool?
Afterall...Pex on the HoC chat said that they may consider future player event tools to be more permenant (thus requiring lots)...so this would be perfect for Battlefields...
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