Player Associations Archive
Thread: This is all pointless until we get storage sorted.
Riis wrote:
I have to admit, the correspondencies are a very unpleasant system to work with, but it is also obvious that the developers have not listened to a basic PA issue that has hobbledthe feel of PAs since the beginning.
It's not the horrible interface.
It's not the failure of SWG to have any form of mass communication systems that work.
It's the crime that we call the 250 items for 9 lots issue.
PAs simply cannot decorate their own halls with a 250 item limit. If I want storage right now, I am expected to sprawl a number of houses over the landscape, ruining the views and multiplying my daily maintenance mouseclicks.
PA Halls stripped bare all over are not due to laziness, but due to the fact that you can decorate maybe two rooms well before you run out of item space.
PA Halls should be centers of commerce, centers of social activity. None of this is present if we can't reliably leave items in the hall for others of our group.
I've spilled a lot of electrons on this issue since August, and I still haven't seen it get on any vaunted "Top-5" list or gotten any action.
This needs fixing. Since the devs tell us they won't listen to us if we don't talk to our equally-paying-customer correspondents, I call on my un-elected correspondent to do my talking for me.
RbT
here here! riis as awlays your are right on target... but i think that PA's are much like musicians ... the devs will take 5 months to respond and when they do say... well we'll work on some fix... but no time frame for when.
Jascentia wrote:
Here's the formula so far... Green for the PA Community actions, Blue for my actions, Red for Developer actions.
You all want A. I not only agree, I want A too.I bring A to the Developers.
The Developers say we'll consider it, but we have concerns X, Y, and Z.
I could just tell the Devs "We Want A!" all over again.
Instead, I become the wet blanket, I guess... I have been bringing up this subject saying, "Okay, there are concerns X Y and Z. How can these concerns be addressed so that the Devs no longer have any objection to A?"
Your response, "We Want A!"
My main day job is school teacher. I deal with this sort of thing daily. The next step is to simply lay out scenarios with consequences. I think you do a well enough job of that.
Also, bring in option B, and tie it to consequences for A. Then we'll see WHY we are so adamant about A.
And finally, sometimes, the players are right. It's A, and only A, that is the right answer for how we play the game.
On the topic, the PA Hall being desirable as a problem is asinine in my opinion. Simply put, there are too many lots available to people who don't need them, and not enough lots available to people who depend on them. Trading is rampant, but too many people have the option to drop PA Halls as residencies in the first place.
More desirable homes is key.
Stricter rules on what a PA hall can be used for is key.
RbT
What about leaving the storage where it is at and perhaps letting guild halls be like city halls? That is they do not take any personal lots up. Of course this would have to be somehow limited to only guilds.
The thing is that even if the devs could make them like city halls leaving the item cap does not resolve one of the problems, it just means that I have 9 free lots that I don't really need. I like it that my home is the PA hall, well technically city hall but I may be overthrown, since it sort of ties me to the leadership role. I do however understand the strife of crafters that more or less have to drop the PA hall since they rely on harvesters in order to actually exist (and that is another reason that the lot limit needs to be maxed at 8, you can't have a structure factory for architectural goods and drop the PA hall)
However the item limit truly does just need to be increased by any amount be it large or small and there are no two ways about it. I understand how the devs can see this as increasing the value of a hall to random people for homes but it has a much more practical use and serves people who are hindering their gameplay for others. Should the majority suffer for the few? Ignore the /citywarn precedent when contemplating that preferably.
As for the lot issue, even though I am not affected by it too terribly much I have an idea that somewhat plays off of another. Perhaps the number of lots the PA hall takes up can be lowered as the PA gets larger. Not by sharing the lots with members since that could get awkward if lots need to be sold back or people just up and leave screwing over the leader and forcing him to destroy a few homes, but when a PA is only 5 members strong it takes the whole 9 (preferably 8) lots and as the PA grows larger and larger the lot requirement goes down and down capping at 4 lots to allow up to a large home/several harvestors and factories as well as the PA hall.
Now this has the same problems as selling lots to others, what if people just leave the PA and the lot requirement goes up by 1? Well that is not the fault of the person just because he needed that 1 extra harvester as the sharing idea that has been expressed in other threads rather the PA leader lost enough members that the PA is no longer large enough to qualify for someimperial write offs. There would be at least a 1 week warning time to recruit another character or to redeed a structure to allow the lot limit increase (even though the leader should always have a buffer zone). The coding for city halls to increase in rank checks the number of citizens well couldn't that be somewhat changed to check for PA members to determine what "rank" the PA hall should be? Make it so that only the PA leader can drop a hall and they are not transferable, also when leadership changes the lot restriction is also changed.
This way you can have a maximum of 2 PA halls for one guild. This way you have an incentive for becoming large, the lot requirement can be eased (make the requirement for this perk small then huge so even little guilds can get a few lots shaven off) and the number of guild halls are restricted. I don't know how feasible or easy this is but it's at least something. Sorry it got so long but this is something that I am passionate about. I hate it that most of my rooms are barren when they could look so much nicer and I really do feel sorry for smith leaders that are prevented from doing all that they could in their trade thanks to helping others.
PS How're things Davy?
radtranceman wrote:
What about if after a pa has been formed using a pa hall and has reached 10 members the Admin has the ability to buy/place a guild terminal in thier declared home which would be required to be medium or large house of any type. This would also raise the maintenance cost of the structure to that of a pa hall or the terminal has its own maintenance costs.
But the guild leader can't do that unless he transfers the PA hall to someone else in order to drop a large home. Might as well just let mediums and larges become PA halls outright. Just make them require a master architect to build a "guild terminal" which would be somewhat pricey, however available for free inside of a true PA hall.
/sign
The trade off isn't worth it. 9 lots is too many to ask, or 250 item are too few. Something needs to change
I dont know if this idea has been suggested but based on the intellegent conversations held in this forum I assume it has. I suggest that the devs do four things:
First:
Only allow PA Halls to be used to either establish a guild or to extend the reach of a guild and limit the number of PA halls allowed per guild to 4 PA Halls.
Second:
Establish a " Founder" right in the PA management terminal. This right could be given by the original founding PA leader to a guild member to allow the setting of a PA hall. The person given this right would have to be a Guild member and the hall could be set on any planet which allows player structures. This would be similar to zoning rights that the mayor of a city can give.
Third:
Keep the 9 lot foot print but give the owner of the PA hall a 3 lot grace extention which would function as their lots but would disappear if there PA hall is ever taken down.
Fourth:
Give the PA Hall the storage capacity befitting a 9 lot footprint.
Just my suggestions on the issue.
Radiant-Sharpie wrote:
Jascentia wrote:
I have brought this up, the Architect correspondent and I are both weighing in on the same side of this. I have also told TH I'd like to have a long discussion with him on this topic.There is one additional issue weighing in to the equation besides the lots to storage space, and that is the footprint of a PA Hall. The devs also have standards when it comes to real estate. People are already using PA Halls as houses or sporting multiple PA Halls per PA.The Devs are worried about anything that makes PA Halls more attractive than they already are, because they already make up a good chunk of taken real estate.
The PA Hall lot to storage space ratio is something that impacts some players very heavily (like me, trying to be a weaponsmith with only one harvester) and others not at all (like pure combat PAs who can have many other buildings for storage).
Increasingstorageor lowering lotsis being investigated, but I am not optimistic. Rather, I think it would be in our interests to work toward a system that pulls away from the PA Hall somewhat. PAs could reflect much more individuality if they could choose other building types with other lot/storage requirements that don't make the Devs as concerned about real estate. I'm getting the sense that PA Halls are going to remain rather limiting structures, but we could broaden our horizons and get much more for the system than extra lots or storage.
So, there are my full thoughts on the issue as it stands. I do read every PA topic in this forum and I like having a back and forth dialogue with anyone who is willing.
I think placing a small house w/ a guild management terminal is retarded. PA halls are supposed to be grand. They're supposed to be the center of your PA. They're supposed to be expensive (credit wise) or everyone in the world would have their own PA. I sugest you kick the lots down to 5 (1 more than a large house) and kick the items upto 350.
Maybe you can make smaller versions of a PA hall.. Anything but a house. That would make as much sense as me using my personal mineral extractor to manage my guild.
And triple the resource requirements. With today's server economies its really not that hard to be able to afford a PA hall, not like in week 2.
Tatho-Corbantis wrote:
Radiant-Sharpie wrote:
Jascentia wrote:I have brought this up, the Architect correspondent and I are both weighing in on the same side of this. I have also told TH I'd like to have a long discussion with him on this topic.There is one additional issue weighing in to the equation besides the lots to storage space, and that is the footprint of a PA Hall. The devs also have standards when it comes to real estate. People are already using PA Halls as houses or sporting multiple PA Halls per PA.The Devs are worried about anything that makes PA Halls more attractive than they already are, because they already make up a good chunk of taken real estate.
The PA Hall lot to storage space ratio is something that impacts some players very heavily (like me, trying to be a weaponsmith with only one harvester) and others not at all (like pure combat PAs who can have many other buildings for storage).
Increasingstorageor lowering lotsis being investigated, but I am not optimistic. Rather, I think it would be in our interests to work toward a system that pulls away from the PA Hall somewhat. PAs could reflect much more individuality if they could choose other building types with other lot/storage requirements that don't make the Devs as concerned about real estate. I'm getting the sense that PA Halls are going to remain rather limiting structures, but we could broaden our horizons and get much more for the system than extra lots or storage.
So, there are my full thoughts on the issue as it stands. I do read every PA topic in this forum and I like having a back and forth dialogue with anyone who is willing.
I think placing a small house w/ a guild management terminal is retarded. PA halls are supposed to be grand. They're supposed to be the center of your PA. They're supposed to be expensive (credit wise) or everyone in the world would have their own PA. I sugest you kick the lots down to 5 (1 more than a large house) and kick the items upto 350.
Maybe you can make smaller versions of a PA hall.. Anything but a house. That would make as much sense as me using my personal mineral extractor to manage my guild.
And triple the resource requirements. With today's server economies its really not that hard to be able to afford a PA hall, not like in week 2.
I agree..make pa halls as they are now cost 1 million credits.. make smaller pa halls for less. Small PA halls are fine, even small cantina pa halls are cool.
Small houses w/ guild terminals is straight ghetto..
ExuroAether wrote:
5 lots, 350 items.... and significantly raise the resources required to make this building. Make this building cost 800k to build perhaps. Also require PA Halls to have at least6registered members. After a certain amount of time without this number of members, the PA disbands and the only option on the terminal is to redeed to the building.
-Ex
the minimum of registered members is 5 within seven days of the start of a Player Association