Player Associations Archive
Thread: Whats your Command Structure?
Page 1 of 2
KahpnarBalsys
Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:20 am
#1
I'am trying to get ideas. I'am forming a new guild.
This is the current I've got.
PvE Commander: Organises PvE Events and looks at PvE Bases.
PvP Commander: Organises PVP Events and Looks at PvP Bases.
Chancellor: Trys to get Entertainers and Medical Professions involved in the guild. The Chancellor will also be the "guild leader" who will distribute power.
Viceroy: Helps with Crafting IDes etc. Business and the Economy.
Governor: Mayor of the city and will sort out City Issues. (Only democractic position)
All 5 positions have equal power.
IN your guild whats your Command Structure like? And is it Neutral/Rebel/Imperial?
Thanks any suggestions would be great.
ps. I hope this is the right board 
RubiusBrasion
Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:28 am
#2
i can probably speak for most guilds when they use normal milliary rankings..
I believe the guild im in goes
Mayor
Member
Officer
Special Forces
Relations
I believe the guild im in goes
Mayor
Member
Officer
Special Forces
Relations
Gooney
Thu Mar 03, 2005 2:16 am
#3
The most important thing with guild ranks is to actually attach some worth to them. Structure doesnt pop up on its own, it is like a living thing, it needs constant maintenance.
I founded a guild about a year ago, since that time we have re-organized 3 times. Each time I was almost positive that the current organization would work.
1st Organisation: Principle was a small focused guild, central activity hunting for profit. Organisation was the traditional officer/member mix. Broke down like this.
Guild Leader (All Rights)
Hunt Masters :
Role: Officer
Description: Huntmasters are responsible for thier planet, knowing what to hunt, and where.
Rights: (Sponser, Accept, Kick, Mail)
Hunters:
Role: Member
Description: Hunters are normal members, expected to maintain and learn general Scout/Ranger hunting technique
Rights: (Sponser)
Role: Officer
Description: Huntmasters are responsible for thier planet, knowing what to hunt, and where.
Rights: (Sponser, Accept, Kick, Mail)
Hunters:
Role: Member
Description: Hunters are normal members, expected to maintain and learn general Scout/Ranger hunting technique
Rights: (Sponser)
Pros: This Organization worked beautifully as long as you had focused Huntmasters and kept the size small.
Cons: Ended up being far too focused, members in SWG like to try new professions and soon we had non-scout officers so the whole principle fell apart. Back to the Drawing board.
Cons: Ended up being far too focused, members in SWG like to try new professions and soon we had non-scout officers so the whole principle fell apart. Back to the Drawing board.
2nd Organisation: Principle was a larger guild, with a strong structure and flexible enough to not hinder growth or member aspirations.
Guild Leader (All Rights)
Sub-Org Commanders:
Role: Officer
Description: Sub-Org Leader there were 3 general sub-orgs (Combat, Craft, Support), over time this expanded as each sub-org grew.
Rights: Spnser, Accept, Kick, Mail
Role: Officer
Description: Sub-Org Leader there were 3 general sub-orgs (Combat, Craft, Support), over time this expanded as each sub-org grew.
Rights: Spnser, Accept, Kick, Mail
Section Heads:
Role: Junior Officer
Description: Each Sub-Org was divided into Squads each with a section Head. Intention was that this would allow a load balancing between activities and admin. This role was mostly responsible for training new members.
Rights: Sponser, Accept
Role: Junior Officer
Description: Each Sub-Org was divided into Squads each with a section Head. Intention was that this would allow a load balancing between activities and admin. This role was mostly responsible for training new members.
Rights: Sponser, Accept
Section Specific:
-Sergeant
-Trooper
-Private
-Sergeant
-Trooper
-Private
Role: Member
Description: Ranks used to recognize time in guild and relative experiance.
Rights: (Sponser)
Description: Ranks used to recognize time in guild and relative experiance.
Rights: (Sponser)
Pros: It allowed the PA to accept non-scout professions and implemented more ranks.
Cons: Proved to be terribly imbalanced, and got confusing with relation to the sections. After a while we ended up with a distribution of 80% combat, 15% support, 5% crafting. Clearly putting far too much load on specific Sub-Org Commanders. In the end it simply didnt work. Due to the organization a very heavy burden was placed on the GL, too many things had to wait until he logged on to get done. This structure placed a very large burden on the individual section, and Sub-Org commanders, something that proved to simply not work. Most players do not join a PA to actually help run it.
3rd Organisation (Current): Principle is to have a structured guild capable of handeling any professions and dealing with growth. As well as instituting ranks that have meaning and encouraging service to the PA by all members. And with encouraging a great leadership development in the Officer Corps.
With this organization an effort has been made to further strengthen member participation and build a strong sense of loyalty and worth, at the same time by increasing the intrinsic value that each member gets from thier time playing. So Guild Uniforms were created, physical Awards implemented, Weekly activities, monthly meetings, etc. Most importantly it shares the PA running load between two people the GL and XO.
Guild Leader (All Rights)
Exectuive Officer (Sponser, Accept, Kick, Title, Mail, Officer Uniform*)
Senior Officer (Sponser, Accept, Kick, Title Mail, Officer Uniform*)
Junior Officer (Sponser, Accept, Kick, Officer Uniform)
Sergeant (Sponser, Accept, Member Uniform)
Trooper (Sponser, Member Uniform)
Member-No Rank (Uniform)
Exectuive Officer (Sponser, Accept, Kick, Title, Mail, Officer Uniform*)
Senior Officer (Sponser, Accept, Kick, Title Mail, Officer Uniform*)
Junior Officer (Sponser, Accept, Kick, Officer Uniform)
Sergeant (Sponser, Accept, Member Uniform)
Trooper (Sponser, Member Uniform)
Member-No Rank (Uniform)
So instead of specific roles we now have general roles. The structure of the guild is set by precident. Awards and promotions are presented before the whole guild during the monthly meetings. Having General Roles means that promotions have greater meaning as you are recognizing the player and not the role they fill. Awards and promotions have proven to be very useful in building an internal goal for all members.
This has proven to be an extremely flexible PA structure. It places the responsiblity for actually running the PA on the shoulders of the ones most interested in the PA as a play style. Namely the GL and XO. Officers are expected to know and enforce guild policy and deal with any small problems that pop up. This has so far worked brilliantly. For a short time we had assigned roles to individual Senior Officers but that didnt work for the same reason that Sub-Org and Section Head principle didnt work.
Running a PA that actually has a worth above and beyond the mechanics of the game takes effort by the core leadership. Ive found that the more general the structure the happier people are. Psycologically people want to belong to something large, organized and strong, something or someplace that they can achieve things. Dont make the mistake of believing that if you make someone an officer that they will automatically take up an active leadership role in your PA. Some will but most will not. They are pre-occupied with their individual professions.
For me helping to run the guild is a major part of my play time, it is something I enjoy and am glad that our members get more value from their play time with us than they would without us.
There are draw backs to this org too. Namely that due to the general nature we will very likely never have an elite PVP squad, unless one naturally forms. However on any given day we can field 10-20 people for PvP if necessary, even more if we have a few days to announce it.
Wow, that was longer than I intended, but maybe you will get some idea of some things that work or dont work. I took the role of XO during the 3rd organization, which has allowed me to focus on what I enjoy the admin stuff.
-Gooney
Message Edited by Gooney on 03-03-2005 11:18 AM
atytula
Thu Mar 03, 2005 12:01 pm
#4
I use a military ranking system.
General - Guild leader - manages all higher level functions of the guild
Officers - Colonel, Major, Commander, Captain, Lt - Run different areas of the guild.
Enlisted - Private, Corporal, Sgt, WO - Main troops. Higher rank is more a prestige thing, but in battle, rank is respected.
Recruit - not an official member of the guild.
Boscohark
Thu Mar 03, 2005 4:49 pm
#5
KahpnarBalsys wrote:
I'am trying to get ideas. I'am forming a new guild.
This is the current I've got.
PvE Commander: Organises PvE Events and looks at PvE Bases.
PvP Commander: Organises PVP Events and Looks at PvP Bases.
Chancellor: Trys to get Entertainers and Medical Professions involved in the guild. The Chancellor will also be the "guild leader" who will distribute power.
Viceroy: Helps with Crafting IDes etc. Business and the Economy.
Governor: Mayor of the city and will sort out City Issues. (Only democractic position)
All 5 positions have equal power.
IN your guild whats your Command Structure like? And is it Neutral/Rebel/Imperial?
Thanks any suggestions would be great.
ps. I hope this is the right board
In our guild we have:
A Ruling Council: Currently 5 Members all share power, one is nominal head of the guild, another is the Mayor
Directors; These run departments that include, Crafting, Information, Events, Recruiting etc.
Asst. Directors: Each department has an AD to help out and Assume duties if necessary.
Mayor: When not a Council member the Mayor is considered a Director Level Position.
All Council Mebers have full guild Powers and are Militia in the City.
All Directors can Sponsor and use Guild Mail and are militia
AD's are militia and have guild privilages on a case to case basis.
After that you have full members and recruits.recruits have all rights of a full member but are on a probationary period.
Cheers!
SmithingWeapons
Thu Mar 03, 2005 5:57 pm
#6
we just have 1 spot, dictator. Guild Leader and Mayor are one in the same. Keeps out the he said she said stuff and lets everyone focus on having fun in the game.
TheJediDoc
Thu Mar 03, 2005 6:51 pm
#7
I have a guild around 30 members and use the following rankings:
Founder
-Just a title to show which people originally created the guild
Leader
-Organizes the entire guild and all it's workings. Sends out weekly emails to the guild, prepares weekly hunt, prepares other events such as contests, decorates/maintains the guild hall, and listens to and talks with guild members.
Manager
-Managers are basically leaders with just a few less powers. They help organize and run events.
Council Members
-Come up with new ideas and attend special meetings with the Leaders and Managers. They help think of ways to improve the guild.
Normal Members
-Everyone else, they have sponsorship power so they can invite thier friends or whom ever else they want. A leader/manager must accept the new member before they can join the guild though.
PLEASE NOTE: Our guild doesn't follow strict rank because we don't want to make the normal members feel less important. I use guild ranks in order to get jobs done, not to show power. Some people don't have time to run events or help out with the guild management and I won't hold that against them.
Founder
-Just a title to show which people originally created the guild
Leader
-Organizes the entire guild and all it's workings. Sends out weekly emails to the guild, prepares weekly hunt, prepares other events such as contests, decorates/maintains the guild hall, and listens to and talks with guild members.
Manager
-Managers are basically leaders with just a few less powers. They help organize and run events.
Council Members
-Come up with new ideas and attend special meetings with the Leaders and Managers. They help think of ways to improve the guild.
Normal Members
-Everyone else, they have sponsorship power so they can invite thier friends or whom ever else they want. A leader/manager must accept the new member before they can join the guild though.
PLEASE NOTE: Our guild doesn't follow strict rank because we don't want to make the normal members feel less important. I use guild ranks in order to get jobs done, not to show power. Some people don't have time to run events or help out with the guild management and I won't hold that against them.
atytula
Thu Mar 03, 2005 7:20 pm
#8
To each his own on how to run their guild, but I just wanted to make a comment on this "note". The fact that some people have these titles make these members "more important" and those that don't have time to run events or help out with guild management "less important" and they will feel this way. It is a show of power. What you can say though is that everyone is treated as an equal, and no one person has a right to tell someone else what to do (which can happen in a ranked guild structure).
TheJediDoc wrote:
PLEASE NOTE: Our guild doesn't follow strict rank because we don't want to make the normal members feel less important. I use guild ranks in order to get jobs done, not to show power. Some people don't have time to run events or help out with the guild management and I won't hold that against them.
Gooney
Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:03 am
#9
atytula wrote:
To each his own on how to run their guild, but I just wanted to make a comment on this "note". The fact that some people have these titles make these members "more important" and those that don't have time to run events or help out with guild management "less important" and they will feel this way. It is a show of power. What you can say though is that everyone is treated as an equal, and no one person has a right to tell someone else what to do (which can happen in a ranked guild structure).
TheJediDoc wrote:
PLEASE NOTE: Our guild doesn't follow strict rank because we don't want to make the normal members feel less important. I use guild ranks in order to get jobs done, not to show power. Some people don't have time to run events or help out with the guild management and I won't hold that against them.
I disagree completely with both notions. Ranksserve (among other things) asa personal goal for members to strive for.Ranks and awards serve to increase structure and create a feeling that the PA is more than simply a group of people running around and talking in the same chat. Of course some guilds only want that, and thats fine.
Yes officers are usually expected to be more active in organizing events, representing the guild, teaching new members, in short taking an active role in keeping the forward momentum of the guild going. Some players do not wish to be actively involved in running the guild, for them they simply want to be a part of something and thats fine. Still if you have ranks in your guild you want to give even these players somthing to strive for.
Ranks arent really used for "Deciding whose Boss". As this is a notion that simply is impossible to enforce in an MMOG. Players join PAs voluntarily, they contribute of their own free will, they can leave anytime they want and other than personal relationships have nothing binding them to their PA. Thats the reality of PAs in MMOGs. Given this ,no rank structure can force any one to do anything they dont willingly agree to.
PAs are a form of social contract. When the member joins they expect to increase their in-game playquality. The PA in return receives the service of the member, how this is used and what form it takes is completely dependant upon the structure of the PA. For some it means that they will group with other members, thus increasing all participants play quality. It can take many forms.
Ranks allow this social contract to have a structure that can then be utilized by the PA to create more and better "content" for its members.
-Gooney
Adrir
Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:23 am
#10
Provisional -> Core -> Executive
Provisionals are the newbs.
Core is ofc the body of the guild.
Executives are the officers, they organise events and manage the guild.
Depending on what type of guild i choose to run, i utilise simple variations & enhancements of this structure. Normally, I utilise a "communistic" system where the provs & core are equal, but the executives are "more equal" (have more power).
***
Provisionals
Consisting of the newly recruited members and players who have not yet developed their characters to a point where they can participate in "high-end" events. Newbs are given a little help to get started. Conduct is closely monitored and potential problems are "filtered out". For provisionals to become core members they must be evaluated by an executive and deemed able to represent the guild and participate in activities.
Core
Consisting of the body of members. For a core member to become an executive, (s)he must be handpicked by the leader having demonstrated the skill and desire to help with guild administration.
Executives
Consisting of the cream of core members. Usually there is 1 officer for every 5-10 core (dependent on suitable canditates being available). Each executive is granted basic powers (mail, invite, title, hall/vault admin) and is guided on how they should use them.
This stucture operates loosely on a "leader oversee officer, officer oversee member" basis with the officers dealing with the basic everyday needs of the members while the leader deals with "more important" administration and issues (Guild vs Guild, "public" events, etc).
Provisionals are exempt from some guild activity (for example PvP, base killing, high level dungeons) to give them incentive to develop their skills. From experience, it is never a good thing to leave a newb behind in the geo caves because they cudn't get the door key and can be frustrating for them to get no xp and die all time on hunts. However, as a compromise, executives will organise special newbie hunts for easy "low-end" xp and "seminars" on grinding-technique, game mechanics etc.
NOTE: to avoid dependency on guild, resources & equipment is not given out freely. All "give-outs" should be earned.
REMEMBER: guilds are supposed to enhance FUN and enahnce GAMEPLAY! Make sure to focus on this! So often have i found guilds concentrating on being "cool & uber"! With time and effort, those will come without you trying to achieve this!
Provisionals are the newbs.
Core is ofc the body of the guild.
Executives are the officers, they organise events and manage the guild.
Depending on what type of guild i choose to run, i utilise simple variations & enhancements of this structure. Normally, I utilise a "communistic" system where the provs & core are equal, but the executives are "more equal" (have more power).
***
Provisionals
Consisting of the newly recruited members and players who have not yet developed their characters to a point where they can participate in "high-end" events. Newbs are given a little help to get started. Conduct is closely monitored and potential problems are "filtered out". For provisionals to become core members they must be evaluated by an executive and deemed able to represent the guild and participate in activities.
Core
Consisting of the body of members. For a core member to become an executive, (s)he must be handpicked by the leader having demonstrated the skill and desire to help with guild administration.
Executives
Consisting of the cream of core members. Usually there is 1 officer for every 5-10 core (dependent on suitable canditates being available). Each executive is granted basic powers (mail, invite, title, hall/vault admin) and is guided on how they should use them.
This stucture operates loosely on a "leader oversee officer, officer oversee member" basis with the officers dealing with the basic everyday needs of the members while the leader deals with "more important" administration and issues (Guild vs Guild, "public" events, etc).
Provisionals are exempt from some guild activity (for example PvP, base killing, high level dungeons) to give them incentive to develop their skills. From experience, it is never a good thing to leave a newb behind in the geo caves because they cudn't get the door key and can be frustrating for them to get no xp and die all time on hunts. However, as a compromise, executives will organise special newbie hunts for easy "low-end" xp and "seminars" on grinding-technique, game mechanics etc.
NOTE: to avoid dependency on guild, resources & equipment is not given out freely. All "give-outs" should be earned.
REMEMBER: guilds are supposed to enhance FUN and enahnce GAMEPLAY! Make sure to focus on this! So often have i found guilds concentrating on being "cool & uber"! With time and effort, those will come without you trying to achieve this!
Message Edited by Adrir on 03-05-2005 09:12 AM
TheJediDoc
Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:31 am
#11
I really like the idea of having "more equal", lol. JK, I do like your system.
atytula
Fri Mar 04, 2005 2:02 pm
#12
Like I said, to each his own. But I still think that the idea of ranks does define some people as better then others. Not that I think this is a bad thing. Those that earn a higher rank deserve more reconition then someone who does nothing in the guild.
Gooney wrote:
I disagree completely with both notions. Ranksserve (among other things) asa personal goal for members to strive for.Ranks and awards serve to increase structure and create a feeling that the PA is more than simply a group of people running around and talking in the same chat. Of course some guilds only want that, and thats fine.
Adrir
Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:36 am
#13
Rank & Title, in my opinion, is a pretty redundent in a game such as this since small guilds dont need it and why bother in a larger guild.
Having delegated functionality (having "Event Managers", "Recruiters", etc.) is usually better. The titles automatically generate recognition and the player fufills a worthwhile function. It will also give some players something to strive for. However, inactivity or neglect can result in "holes" being generated in areas of the PA.
Having a pure dictatorship can be very challenging since managing a guild can be strenuous and time counsuming however, if the guild is small, it is the most effective. The "My word is law" and "I always know best" philosophies will shape a guild perfectly, even if it means losing a few members initially. But, it doesn't give members any recognition or anything to aspire to (except form their own guild and do it better than you!).
The Officer/Member approach (or "Executive") can be effective if executed well. Officers organise and manage anything and everything. Members will aspire to become offcers by trying to impress their peers and officers will aspire to out-do each other by organising the most uber event or recruiting the best talent (NEVER MOST NEW MEMBERS FOR RISK OF IMPLOSION!). A disadvantage however is when there are disagreements, contridictions etc. Also, they must be carefully guided by the guild leader or the PA may "loose perspective".
*Updated other post with more detailed explanation of structure
Having delegated functionality (having "Event Managers", "Recruiters", etc.) is usually better. The titles automatically generate recognition and the player fufills a worthwhile function. It will also give some players something to strive for. However, inactivity or neglect can result in "holes" being generated in areas of the PA.
Having a pure dictatorship can be very challenging since managing a guild can be strenuous and time counsuming however, if the guild is small, it is the most effective. The "My word is law" and "I always know best" philosophies will shape a guild perfectly, even if it means losing a few members initially. But, it doesn't give members any recognition or anything to aspire to (except form their own guild and do it better than you!).
The Officer/Member approach (or "Executive") can be effective if executed well. Officers organise and manage anything and everything. Members will aspire to become offcers by trying to impress their peers and officers will aspire to out-do each other by organising the most uber event or recruiting the best talent (NEVER MOST NEW MEMBERS FOR RISK OF IMPLOSION!). A disadvantage however is when there are disagreements, contridictions etc. Also, they must be carefully guided by the guild leader or the PA may "loose perspective".
*Updated other post with more detailed explanation of structure
Page 1 of 2