Player Associations Archive

Thread: How the CU affected guilds?

atytula
Mon May 02, 2005 1:20 pm
#1

Greetings,


I would like to start by stating that I am a PA leader, I am in support for the CU fundementals, that grouping and community are the most important part of any MMORPG. That a game should be fun and playable for all professions and no one profession should be better in every way then another profession. I also feel that this post is best placed in the PA and Grouping forum.


How did the CU affect guilds? I have been monitoring posts about the CU and also what has been happening on Eclipse, my server. So far, I have seen a dramatic number of players leave SWG on my server. I would venture to say that 50% of the people I know in game are gone. Some just left, some moved to other MMORPGs. I want to see the CU succeed, but from the view point of a guild leader, the CU really hurt guilds. It creates the requirement for grouping to take out high level content, but now, I am starting to wonder how easy it will be to form a group.


Have other guilds on other servers been hit as hard as Eclipse? If so, regardless of whether you support the CU or not, from the aspect of a guild, the CU is a failure. Like I said, I want the CU to succeed, and I am not planning to leave SWG by choice, but I can only give the CU an F for making guilds better.


Rothin, feel free to sticky this post if you feel the same way. I would like to hear from other guilds in the same position, or even guilds that were unaffected or affected positively.




General Kazar Racillen, Master Smuggler
Echo Battalion CO (Eclipse)
http://www.echobattalion.com
Stena
Mon May 02, 2005 1:49 pm
#2

Let me start off by saying that my guild is only a small guild no more than 12 people including 3 alts. We are all very good mates, some i didnt know before they joined the guild. Some of my guild didnt seem bothered by the CU too much but i kept them up to date on it and what was happening with it so they knew what was comming.

I feel the CU has brough my guild closer together than before. We are having guild hunts every night of the week, only xp hunts at the moment (double xp week) but they have expressed interest in going on hunts most of the time to places they would never have bothered to go before. And my guild is full of solo players who only really grouped to hunt Nightsisters (this includes me) but we are always active on guild chat no matter what we are doing. But as i said we are now hunting together all the time. (albeit only a few days)

However looking at the infinity overall it does not look good for guild, i have seen a few leaders quit/saying they are going to quit and a lot of other ppl quiting, ro they say there are weather they will remians to be seen.




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Jutewr
Mon May 02, 2005 4:06 pm
#3

Well I think that the CU has had both negative and positive effects on our guild.


Negative: We've had 4 people (5 characters) quit already, with several more still deciding. The 4 who've quit include 2 of our guild elders. (Our guild is set up with a leader and 5 elders.) They also include my in-game husband.


Positive: Our guild had been doing less and less things together. I've already seen more joining together to do things, and I hope this continues.





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canova
Tue May 03, 2005 3:25 am
#4

I see the way the CU affects the PAs this way:


1) short term effect :

a- Loss of players : It is still hard to have an accurate idea of how many people are leaving the game. As far as my PA is concerned, I am not counting many losses. I belong to the leading council of a roleplaying PA, who was focusing on the family side of our community, trying to organize things together and helping each other a lot, so of course, our members are not as pissed off as other non roleplaying PAs I assume. So far I noticed some were pissed off and some were enthusiasitic. I did not notice any official departure but so far 3 coming back from other games. So I would be pretty much optimistic.

b- Incentive to group and organize events : this is the positive side. CU made the high end content of the game available only to groups and gave lots of incentive in terms of experience gain and fun to grouping. In my PA it is now much easier than it was to organize expeditions and hunts and I noticed that there is almost all the time some members hunting together. I also bet it will be easier to motivate members for RP-PVP events, since PVP is balanced and much more enjoyable.


2) Medium and long term effect :

a- Gain of members : I hope that the need for groups will lead more players to join guilds. It will be hard to keep being successful in PVE content of the game as a loner. People will need to make friends they can count on to group with and start something. Guilds are the most convenient way to achieve this.

b- Rewamp of the community : This is what I can foresee. I am quite convinced the PA side of the community will be deeply changed.

Why? Many players who did not like grouping or joining guilds will need to now. In the old system, these people would either join superficial communities (mechanical guilds but with very little common identity, often linked to a city, members not necessarily knowing or talking with each other...) or remain alone. Guildshad evolved too, being very specialized. Youhad the PVP guilds, with manyuber leet kiddies.You had the RP guilds etc...Theevolution was towards a stronger identityin guilds.In the new system, lonerswill suffer from such situation.

So they will start looking for guilds that fits their needs: often mature associations, casual, preserving a lot the freedom of the members, so very flexible associations but with a strict standard of conduct and conditions to join.

Also, the specialized guilds will need to change too. PVP guilds for example. PVP will I beleive, become much more popular. I doubt it will remain the sandbox of the tiny proportion of server population it had became. Plus, their member won't be able to access the high quality loot and content alone anymore so those guilds will need to offer more PVE activities, while non PVP guild will tend to practice PVP more.


So I feel there are many changes in the game and the gameplay, and I foresee that they will necessarily change the face of the PAs in our communities, forcing them to modify what they seek to offer to their members, since more players with more new expectations will request it.







I'es Calipija
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AdosOba
Tue May 10, 2005 12:50 am
#5

I am a PA leader and so far out of a 100+ active roster we lost more than 50% f our regular players. The 50% that is left plays other games mostly now, and logs in SWG to see if they fixed a lot of the new bugs yet. We can even start to recruit more people yet due to the terminal bug, still looking into reforming



.:[ Ados Oba ]:.
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canova
Tue May 10, 2005 1:58 am
#6

I was also thinking about something else recently: I beleive the way the CU affects a guild depends also on the way the leaders handle the thing.


In our guild, since many of our members had never tested the CU on TCE3, there was a lot of bitching, frustration, misunderstanding etc... when CU hit live.


Instead of letting this grow, we immediatly tried to put an end to it, cause complains were feeding more complains etc ... and we were afraid things could go out of control. We tried to have everyone focus on helping each other and get the new weapons/ressources needed under the new system, while copy pasting constructive and helpful posts from the official forums on our own forums to help members understand how the new system works.


So basically I beleive that if as a leader you try to circumvent the flood of frustrated comments and try to organize things in order to have people focus on what is fun and learning the new system you can save a guild that might have fallen appart otherwise.


The idea is that loging in a given system (the CU) that might frustrate you but in a guild that is active and where you hear positive comments in guildchat, is much better than loging in the same system but only to hear negative comments and complains. In the second case, people will leave while in the first case they might stay. This is why I beleive, the difference of guilds' state after CU is so unbalanced. Some barely suffered from CU, while some totally vanished.








I'es Calipija
.......:::: Elder Matron of the Insurgent Sisterhood ::::.......
.......:::: Mayor of New Haven ::::.......
.......:::: President & Founder of the Save Our Bantha Association S.O.B.A. ::::.......

The forum Rabid Weasel - Make Instant Travel Ship a vet reward !
Rothin
Tue May 10, 2005 6:52 am
#7



canova wrote:

I was also thinking about something else recently: I beleive the way the CU affects a guild depends also on the way the leaders handle the thing.

In our guild, since many of our members had never tested the CU on TCE3, there was a lot of bitching, frustration, misunderstanding etc... when CU hit live.

Instead of letting this grow, we immediatly tried to put an end to it, cause complains were feeding more complains etc ... and we were afraid things could go out of control. We tried to have everyone focus on helping each other and get the new weapons/ressources needed under the new system, while copy pasting constructive and helpful posts from the official forums on our own forums to help members understand how the new system works.

So basically I beleive that if as a leader you try to circumvent the flood of frustrated comments and try to organize things in order to have people focus on what is fun and learning the new system you can save a guild that might have fallen appart otherwise.

The idea is that loging in a given system (the CU) that might frustrate you but in a guild that is active and where you hear positive comments in guildchat, is much better than loging in the same system but only to hear negative comments and complains. In the second case, people will leave while in the first case they might stay. This is why I beleive, the difference of guilds' state after CU is so unbalanced. Some barely suffered from CU, while some totally vanished.







Very well said.



Rothin Skyshrine

Retired Galactic Senator
Former Player Association Correspondent
"A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both."

paintingfreak
Wed May 11, 2005 9:23 am
#8

Iam high council in a guild with about 30-40 players. We also lost 50% of our guild due to cu.The eclipse server is also almost completly empty from midnight to shut down makin it impossiable to find a group to do missons with.Iam still trying to give cu a chance but it is pretty hard when there is no one else to play withbecause they all got angry and left the game.Double xp week was great until i figured out that it was worthless, due to the fact that i couldnt get double xp if there was no one to group with.I hope there will eventually be a way for us to do solo missons for xp because it really sucks logging on and finding out you cant play cus no onelse is.



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canova
Wed May 11, 2005 9:32 am
#9






paintingfreak wrote:

Iam high council in a guild with about 30-40 players. We also lost 50% of our guild due to cu.The eclipse server is also almost completly empty from midnight to shut down makin it impossiable to find a group to do missons with.Iam still trying to give cu a chance but it is pretty hard when there is no one else to play withbecause they all got angry and left the game.Double xp week was great until i figured out that it was worthless, due to the fact that i couldnt get double xp if there was no one to group with.I hope there will eventually be a way for us to do solo missons for xp because it really sucks logging on and finding out you cant play cus no onelse is.




I totally understand the problem of empty servers that was aggravated on short term by CU. But sincerely you can level up quite fast solo within the CU. You have tones of useful posts on those forums where people explain you how they manage to get decent xp solo. I am not sure I could give you the right answer for your exact profession and your exact level, but that is possible really. I suggest you visit your profession's boards.I wish this legend of the impossibility to get more than 1xp per kill in CU would finally be forgotten. That is in itself a misrepresentation that harms the community a lot.






I'es Calipija
.......:::: Elder Matron of the Insurgent Sisterhood ::::.......
.......:::: Mayor of New Haven ::::.......
.......:::: President & Founder of the Save Our Bantha Association S.O.B.A. ::::.......

The forum Rabid Weasel - Make Instant Travel Ship a vet reward !
Jedimd
Wed May 11, 2005 11:32 am
#10

The CU has brought our PA even closer together. We go on way more group outings now and that's great!


The CU gives us a challenge in PvE now,many of us weregetting so bored of being able to take down everything without much trouble.





- I'll always miss pre-CU but I still have fun.

Rain'Star of Starsider
Smart_Darwin
Mon May 16, 2005 11:33 pm
#11

I am a relative noob to my guild on Bria. I joind the perfrect guild. We were about 300+ players strong, owned 3 large player cities across 2 planets and even split off into a sub-guild (without SOE support of course). When CU hit, a few people left immediately. I inherited some money as a result.


Oh well, the weaker ones would only drag us down, huh? Turns out the worst wasnt over. Within about 10 days everyone had given the CU a shot and could not find the fun in it any more. I don't understand the particulars, since I was never into the ground combat aspect of the game. At any rate, they were pretty frustrated. Keep in mind these were uber-veterans; they figgured out the new system and began to see some XP during the double XP week. They just did not find it fun.


Worst of all, I think was the sense of betrayal. Our ventrillo server was alive with discussions. These guys were actually hurt! The way these changes were rammed down thier throats, bugs and all. I guess it was just too much for them.


All of the guild leadership has left. Our membership has been steadily bleeding. Sadly, we cant see how bad the hemorraging is since alot of the newer players just stopped logging in. These folks never drop from the guild roster.


Most nights i find myself alone on guild chat and the ventrillo servers. A few stalwarts press on and there is even some talk of moving forward with new ledership. Enthusiasam is low al the same. i am afraid this guild is on its last legs.



Success is not sufficient; others must fail.
Gothywench
Tue May 17, 2005 6:44 am
#12

Honestly, it hasn't affected our Guild hardly at all. We lost a couple of players (as in two). They both had been gone for a long time. Gave the CU *one day* and then quit. I say, good riddance.

Our guild has been around since before Player Cities and it's always been a very strong guild. Our membership is going up since the CU, but mostly from player who have come back after being gone a long time and their guild no longer exists. They are all mature and it's been a lot of fun so far.

Our process has *always* been selective, so it's not a big deal for us to continue to screen people. We've always been very chatty in GC and we have a lot of people who did the Testing for the CU. In that respect, we're lucky, as we were not blindsided by all the changes of the CU. We were able to have a huge discussion pre-CU and also post-cu. Not only that, we've got a forum on our guild website, so we can communicate constantly.

The biggest change has been on our guildies who have been grinding jedi. Now, they're all asking for help, when they used to be a lot more solo. We've always been big on grouping, both on ground and space.

Basically....we haven't seen a lot of changes. That's what all my blathering is about.




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Martha
Tue May 17, 2005 8:46 am
#13






Gothywench wrote:
Honestly, it hasn't affected our Guild hardly at all. We lost a couple of players (as in two). They both had been gone for a long time. Gave the CU *one day* and then quit. I say, good riddance.

Our guild has been around since before Player Cities and it's always been a very strong guild. Our membership is going up since the CU, but mostly from player who have come back after being gone a long time and their guild no longer exists. They are all mature and it's been a lot of fun so far.

Our process has *always* been selective, so it's not a big deal for us to continue to screen people. We've always been very chatty in GC and we have a lot of people who did the Testing for the CU. In that respect, we're lucky, as we were not blindsided by all the changes of the CU. We were able to have a huge discussion pre-CU and also post-cu. Not only that, we've got a forum on our guild website, so we can communicate constantly.

The biggest change has been on our guildies who have been grinding jedi. Now, they're all asking for help, when they used to be a lot more solo. We've always been big on grouping, both on ground and space.

Basically....we haven't seen a lot of changes. That's what all my blathering is about.




To echo what the wonderful Sti-fi says, we've noticed very little change to our guild since it's founding in August 03- if anything, the CU has brought us more members, as we've had a relatively strong presence on Gorath for some time (we are now the oldest surviving player city under the same management, and we still have a large number of the 'core' members that have been around since founding), and with the recent disolution of a lot of guilds, we've had a request for membership from a lot of players.


and, because i have nothing original to say, i'd like to echo another poster and agree that it's almost always down to the leadership of the guild, as to the direction it takes and the stability it enjoys - one of my toons may be guild leader, but we have a 5-person council that has the same level of control over the guild as myself, in terms of recruitment, policy and discipline - this way it's never one person completely calling the shots, people get their say heard, and we have a majority rule system that none of us circumvent.


we've had some grim times, and we've had more than our share of assclowns, griefers, kiddies and idiots, but to my mind, the important thing is remembering that the guild is there to facilitate having fun - if someone's ruining that, then you reason with them till you have no choice but tokick them, and bear in mind that this is meant to be fun, not stressful - if someone's making it stressful for others, they gotta go!




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