Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Defenses on Test Center
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Madrox
Wed Dec 03, 2003 9:36 am
#2
Yeah, I said BH's have a few defense points but none really worth mentioning.
It seems pretty clear that Smugglers and BH's are not suppose to have any defense.
It seems pretty clear that Smugglers and BH's are not suppose to have any defense.
Madrox
Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:29 pm
#3
Just to start off, these are all on TEST, not Live- and are of course subject to change...yadda yadda.
These are the current +skill mods that are on test.
In all cases they are only the skill mods given by that profession only, not Master Marksman or Brawler except in the case of the Commmando which includes Master Marksman.
[Note: Smugglers and Bounty Hunters don't appear on here as they have no defenses, well BH has just a few from Master Marksmen but no others to speak of]
Ranged Professions:
Pistol:
+105 Dodge
+7 Ranged Defense
+45 Melee Defense
+40 Dvs Stun
+40 Dvs Blind
+40 Dvs Dizzy
+50 Dvs Knockdown
+20 Dvs Posture Change
Carbine:
+105 Counter Attack
+27 Ranged Defense
+0 Melee Defense
+25 Dvs Intimidate
+15 Dvs Knockdown
Rifle:
+80 Block
+72 Ranged Defense
+45 Melee Defense
+10 Dvs Blind
+10 Dvs Dizzy
+30 Dvs Posture Change
+10 Dvs Stun
Commando:
+35 Ranged Defense
+32 Melee Defense
+5 Dvs Knockdown
Melee Professions:
TKA:
+96 Defense Acuity
+62 Melee Defense
+45 Ranged Defense
+10 Dvs Blind
+30 Dvs Posture Change
+15 Dvs Stun
+5 Dvs Dizzy
+20 Dvs Knockdown
Fencer:
+105 Dodge
+74 Melee Defense
+69 Ranged Defense
+50 Dvs Knockdown
+50 Dvs Posture Change
+40 Dvs Blind
+40 Dvs Dizzy
+20 Dvs Intimidate
Swordsman:
+110 Counter Attack
+20 Melee Defense
+15 Ranged Defense
+20 Dvs Dizzy
+20 Dvs Intimidate
+50 Dvs Stun
+25 Dvs Knockdown
+10 Dvs Posture Chance
+10 Dvs Blind
Pikeman:
+115 Block
+30 Melee Defense
+25 Ranged Defense
+20 Dvs Blind
+40 Dvs Dizzy
+20 Dvs Knockdown
+30 Dvs Posture Change
+50 Dvs Stun
The Rankings:
Passive Defenses:(Dodge, Block, Counter Attack)
Pikemen
Swordsmen
Pistoleer - Carbineer - Fencer
TKA
Riflemen
Commando
Melee Defense:
Fencer
TKA
Pistoleer - Riflemen
Commando
Pikemen
Swordsmen
Carbineer
Ranged Defense:
Riflemen
Fencer
TKA
Commando
Carbineer
Pikemen
Swordsmen
Pistoleer
State Defenses:(Just a total sum)
Fencer -200
Pistoleer -190
Pikemen -160
Swordsmen -135
TKA -80
Riflemen -60
Carbineer -40
Commando -5
Summary:
First of all, all melee classes definately beat ranged classes now because of the new Center of Being ability when it comes to passive defenses. Also, the new Damage Mitigation abilities were left out because all professions recieve thier mitigation counterparts accordingly(thus balancing out between them all).
Fencer is definately the top-dog when it comes to Defense. Fencer has the most melee defense and state defenses, is 2nd in Ranged, and tied for 3rd in Passive defenses.
Pistoleer is the top in State Defenses among the Ranged Professions and also has a high Dodge ability. They have high melee defense among the ranged professions, but have pitiful ranged defense.
Rifleman has high ranged defense tied with pistoleer for melee defense(within ranged), has decent Passive defense with Block, and low State Defenses
Carbineer is really lacking in defense. They do have high Counterattack, but I don't really know how good this ability is. The description says it gives an unblockable return hit, but they have no melee defense and sub-par state defenses.
Commandos have low-medium Ranged and Melee defense, with horrid state defenses and no Passive defenses.
TKA has well-rounded defenses. Medium-High Ranged and Melee skills. High Defensive Acuity, and medium State defenses. Im not sure what the Defensive Acuity it- from the description it sounds like it gives a chance to Block, Counter, or Dodge.
Swordsmen have really low Melee and Ranged Defense, but have a high Counterattack. They also have decent and well rounded State defenses.
Pikemen have a huge Block ability with medium values in Melee, Ranged, and State Defenses.
Most defenses seem well rounded & balanced among the professions. Carbineer is definately in need of some more defense, especially since most of their defense is gained from the Master box only. Melee as a whole are definately above Ranged professions, especially with Center of Being, but I think that is how it should be.
My biggest gripe is with the Riflemen changes. They have the most ranged defense(ok with that) but are also tied now with Pistoleers for melee defense and are 3rd overall. Before the justification was the melee damage penalty they suffer when they are hit. But now on Test, the damage penalty is being lowered(possibly removed) from Rifle, Carbine, and Heavy Weapons. Without the damage penalty Riflemen become the best defensive class among the Ranged Professions, with Pistoleer only on top in State defenses.
I am not trying to sound like Riflemen are overpowered or should be hit hard with the nerf bat, but if the damage penalty is being lowered for holding a rifle then maybe their Melee Defense should be re-evaluated, or the reverse-no-nerf situation with Pistoleers having their defense re-evaluated(Carbineers too!).
These are the current +skill mods that are on test.
In all cases they are only the skill mods given by that profession only, not Master Marksman or Brawler except in the case of the Commmando which includes Master Marksman.
[Note: Smugglers and Bounty Hunters don't appear on here as they have no defenses, well BH has just a few from Master Marksmen but no others to speak of]
Ranged Professions:
Pistol:
+105 Dodge
+7 Ranged Defense
+45 Melee Defense
+40 Dvs Stun
+40 Dvs Blind
+40 Dvs Dizzy
+50 Dvs Knockdown
+20 Dvs Posture Change
Carbine:
+105 Counter Attack
+27 Ranged Defense
+0 Melee Defense
+25 Dvs Intimidate
+15 Dvs Knockdown
Rifle:
+80 Block
+72 Ranged Defense
+45 Melee Defense
+10 Dvs Blind
+10 Dvs Dizzy
+30 Dvs Posture Change
+10 Dvs Stun
Commando:
+35 Ranged Defense
+32 Melee Defense
+5 Dvs Knockdown
Melee Professions:
TKA:
+96 Defense Acuity
+62 Melee Defense
+45 Ranged Defense
+10 Dvs Blind
+30 Dvs Posture Change
+15 Dvs Stun
+5 Dvs Dizzy
+20 Dvs Knockdown
Fencer:
+105 Dodge
+74 Melee Defense
+69 Ranged Defense
+50 Dvs Knockdown
+50 Dvs Posture Change
+40 Dvs Blind
+40 Dvs Dizzy
+20 Dvs Intimidate
Swordsman:
+110 Counter Attack
+20 Melee Defense
+15 Ranged Defense
+20 Dvs Dizzy
+20 Dvs Intimidate
+50 Dvs Stun
+25 Dvs Knockdown
+10 Dvs Posture Chance
+10 Dvs Blind
Pikeman:
+115 Block
+30 Melee Defense
+25 Ranged Defense
+20 Dvs Blind
+40 Dvs Dizzy
+20 Dvs Knockdown
+30 Dvs Posture Change
+50 Dvs Stun
The Rankings:
Passive Defenses:(Dodge, Block, Counter Attack)
Pikemen
Swordsmen
Pistoleer - Carbineer - Fencer
TKA
Riflemen
Commando
Melee Defense:
Fencer
TKA
Pistoleer - Riflemen
Commando
Pikemen
Swordsmen
Carbineer
Ranged Defense:
Riflemen
Fencer
TKA
Commando
Carbineer
Pikemen
Swordsmen
Pistoleer
State Defenses:(Just a total sum)
Fencer -200
Pistoleer -190
Pikemen -160
Swordsmen -135
TKA -80
Riflemen -60
Carbineer -40
Commando -5
Summary:
First of all, all melee classes definately beat ranged classes now because of the new Center of Being ability when it comes to passive defenses. Also, the new Damage Mitigation abilities were left out because all professions recieve thier mitigation counterparts accordingly(thus balancing out between them all).
Fencer is definately the top-dog when it comes to Defense. Fencer has the most melee defense and state defenses, is 2nd in Ranged, and tied for 3rd in Passive defenses.
Pistoleer is the top in State Defenses among the Ranged Professions and also has a high Dodge ability. They have high melee defense among the ranged professions, but have pitiful ranged defense.
Rifleman has high ranged defense tied with pistoleer for melee defense(within ranged), has decent Passive defense with Block, and low State Defenses
Carbineer is really lacking in defense. They do have high Counterattack, but I don't really know how good this ability is. The description says it gives an unblockable return hit, but they have no melee defense and sub-par state defenses.
Commandos have low-medium Ranged and Melee defense, with horrid state defenses and no Passive defenses.
TKA has well-rounded defenses. Medium-High Ranged and Melee skills. High Defensive Acuity, and medium State defenses. Im not sure what the Defensive Acuity it- from the description it sounds like it gives a chance to Block, Counter, or Dodge.
Swordsmen have really low Melee and Ranged Defense, but have a high Counterattack. They also have decent and well rounded State defenses.
Pikemen have a huge Block ability with medium values in Melee, Ranged, and State Defenses.
Most defenses seem well rounded & balanced among the professions. Carbineer is definately in need of some more defense, especially since most of their defense is gained from the Master box only. Melee as a whole are definately above Ranged professions, especially with Center of Being, but I think that is how it should be.
My biggest gripe is with the Riflemen changes. They have the most ranged defense(ok with that) but are also tied now with Pistoleers for melee defense and are 3rd overall. Before the justification was the melee damage penalty they suffer when they are hit. But now on Test, the damage penalty is being lowered(possibly removed) from Rifle, Carbine, and Heavy Weapons. Without the damage penalty Riflemen become the best defensive class among the Ranged Professions, with Pistoleer only on top in State defenses.
I am not trying to sound like Riflemen are overpowered or should be hit hard with the nerf bat, but if the damage penalty is being lowered for holding a rifle then maybe their Melee Defense should be re-evaluated, or the reverse-no-nerf situation with Pistoleers having their defense re-evaluated(Carbineers too!).
Aanarion
Wed Dec 03, 2003 1:47 pm
#4
The rifleman defense is quite impressive. I posted earlier about a fight i got into witha master rifleman (i think he had fencer also) and with 4 masters shooting at him....we missed 40 straight shots and got owned. I find the balance in this gamevery frusterating.
Laeren
Thu Dec 04, 2003 8:00 am
#5
Madrox wrote:
Yeah, I said BH's have a few defense points but none really worth mentioning.
It seems pretty clear that Smugglers and BH's are not suppose to have any defense.
Given that these are to an extent "rogue"ish classes, which depend more on fast, high-damage surprise attacks rather than long, drawn out gun battles, this isn't surprising.
Last Ditch
Panic Shot
Low Blow
Eye Shot
Fire KD
Torso Shot
Haldan
Thu Dec 04, 2003 10:43 pm
#6
Laeren wrote:
Given that these are to an extent "rogue"ish classes, which depend more on fast, high-damage surprise attacks rather than long, drawn out gun battles, this isn't surprising.
Last Ditch
Panic Shot
Low Blow
Eye Shot
Fire KD
Torso Shot
Until they can't land any of those shots on an opponent due to their newly-increased defense modifiers. Meanwhile - they get KD'd, Dizzied and then DB'd becausethey havebasically no defenses.
Unless of course, they're going to increase the BH and Smugglers offensive mods to compensate. That'd bring us right back to where we are now though. That'd be kind of pointless.
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