Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Programming the Pistoleer Specials
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Galahede
Fri Mar 19, 2004 1:04 pm
#1
Devs, why is it taking such a long time to fix the pistoleer specials?
I'm not a programmer, so please make me understand why it's so hard to fix these specials? For instance, whyhas it taken so long to get Health Shot to hit the Health Bar only? Isn't this just numbers that you have to plug in? Couldn't that be done in a few days?
How about the other specials? LikeStopping Shot? Why can't that be fixed within a week?
Sure, I'm ignorant about all this. If one of you (developers) can inform us ignorant folk, it would be beneficial to you and us.
I just want to know why. Whatever the reason. You can say because it's tough to look through all the code, or there's not enough devs, or it's not important right now, or whatever.
Please let me know. It would set my mind at ease about my full years subscription.
Thanks in advance.
BZebub
Fri Mar 19, 2004 10:37 pm
#3
i don't think its a programming issue. i am a programmer, myself.
now, i've never used the SWGEditor. in fact, just the thought of having my hands on the tools they use to modify the game makes me drool. being as i've never used it, i cannot judge. is changing specials easy? do you just use a drop-down menu to change the status effects of a special? are HAM costs changed via a slider? or does it involve going into the code and changing it? it is easy to change? does it require a recompile of the entire game to change a special?
does the editor have a bug in it that causes it to crash when fixing pistoleer? (lol! probably)
Fatal Exception at Location 00xC925FAA: Fixing Pistoleer specials forbidden
Eeeenewees, like I was saying. we don't neccessarily know how easy it is to change these things. and even before that, you have to worry about balance, and approval by the designers and combat team...
Vangreal
Sat Mar 20, 2004 8:34 am
#4
I'm sure most of these fixes are coming out in the combat patch, and hopefully everything works at that point. I have honestly given up trying to get the devs attention on boards, as I doubt when they are bored they come here to see what people hate about their game. Plus, being a master smuggler (aka master slicer) for about 6 months, you learn to just live with what you have, and hope for better soon. I would personally like to fire everyone at SOE until the game worked like it should have when we bought it. Its just upsetting seeing how much is broken in this game if you read the forums, and having 2 broken master skills really, really sucks. But it could be worse, I could also be a squad leader, I think they have it the worst personally.
Galahede
Sat Mar 20, 2004 1:13 pm
#5
BZebub wrote:
does the editor have a bug in it that causes it to crash when fixing pistoleer? (lol! probably)
Fatal Exception at Location 00xC925FAA: Fixing Pistoleer specials forbidden
Eeeenewees, like I was saying. we don't neccessarily know how easy it is to change these things. and even before that, you have to worry about balance, and approval by the designers and combat team...
lol, I like the Fatal Exception, I wonder if they get the Blue Screen of Death?
As you say BZebub, we don't necessarily know how easy (or hard) it is to change these things. All I'm asking is for the devs to let us know so we can understand the delay. There's a reason for it. I would like to know why.
Devs, anything? something? I'll get you a large pie... with pepperoni? maybe mushrooms? With some Mountain Dew on the side?
Anyone else hear the crickets?
JawaJoey2
Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:21 pm
#6
To fix A special shouln't take long at all. Unfortunately, SOE has more than a special to fix. They have a whole, lot, plus content to add and entire proffessions to fix. You'd think that an intern could fix a special on his lunchbreak, but probably not, and scheduling is packed and organized so that they get big things done.
KaernLegorah
Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:55 pm
#7
Galahede wrote:
Devs, why is it taking such a long time to fix the pistoleer specials?
I'm not a programmer, so please make me understand why it's so hard to fix these specials? For instance, whyhas it taken so long to get Health Shot to hit the Health Bar only? Isn't this just numbers that you have to plug in? Couldn't that be done in a few days?
How about the other specials? LikeStopping Shot? Why can't that be fixed within a week?
Sure, I'm ignorant about all this. If one of you (developers) can inform us ignorant folk, it would be beneficial to you and us.
I just want to know why. Whatever the reason. You can say because it's tough to look through all the code, or there's not enough devs, or it's not important right now, or whatever.
There could be a large number of reasons:
1. They could be waiting for the combat balance. Their plan could be to fix all the combat professions AND balance them within the same patch (Publish 8). Publishes 6 and 7 brought us "preliminary combat balance changes," and you may have noticed that Publish 7 also included fixes for quite a few Carbineer specials. Carbineer was probably the most screwed up of all the combat professions (and probably still is haha), so fixing some of their specials during the "preliminary" work would make some sense.
2. Some bugs are not purely Pistoleer bugs. FanShot is only bugged because AOE attacks in general are bugged. Perhaps the AOE problem is difficult to track down (we know that a lot of corpses in the area causes a problem, but now "what" causes a problem is different from knowing "why" it causes that problem).
3. There may be multiple instances of the same bug, but all of the have different sources. One of the Devs mentioned this when vehicles weren't storing correctly. There could be 10 bugs all caused by a different source, but they could all have the same ultimate effect. Fixing 1 or 2 of those bugs would reduce the frequency of the problem, but the problem would still exist. Perhaps the Devs want to squash as many problems with a special attack as they can (9 of the 10 problems instead of just 1 or 2 for instance) before adding the change to a patch.
4. "They only want you when you're seventeen. When you're twenty-one, you're no fun" - Ladytron (I couldn't come up with a fourth reason haha)
If we don't have major fixes slated for the combat balance (Publish 8) then it will definitely be time for us to cause a majoruproar.
NomOrion
Sat Mar 20, 2004 2:56 pm
#8
BZebub wrote:
Eeeenewees, like I was saying. we don't neccessarily know how easy it is to change these things. and even before that, you have to worry about balance, and approval by the designers and combat team...
I would have to agree with you there BZebub. It could very well be alot of 'red tape' has to be cut through before anything is actually put ingame. Meaning, it could be a simple fix but every fix or patch has to be signed off on by the DEV team leaders. A pyramid of programmers with the final say coming from the top. Quite possibly 'Pistoleer Specials' has made it to the head DEVs desk multiple times. But has been passed on for more pressing matters. Like keeping their Jedi happy. 
I think we all can agree that theanswers we rarely get to the same questions we all ask everyday are deliberately vague and unbinding.
I have said this before.Back in August of 2003 the DEV team stated that pistoleer would be fixed. If they were forthcoming and said that it wasscheduled for a fixmid 2004, would you still be playing all this time? Or would you have just canceled you subscription until they got it right?
Kinda reminds me of the long trip where the kid in the back seat keeps asking 'are we there yet?''when are we gonna get there?'. And the parent, who very well may be lost himself, but won't admit it, keeps ducking the question with 'Almost'.
Orew
Sat Mar 20, 2004 3:58 pm
#9
let me see...
one day to think how things should work...
one week to understand what the current code does (the programmer who originally wrote the current code works on the space expansion thingie)
one week to design everything fron scratch - because the current code is so full of hacks that it's beyond maintainability
one weeks of meetings to convince the managers that the code needs to be written from scratch
one week to convince the original developper that the current code cannot be used - the original developper is emotionally involved with his code and doesn't agree
one day of hacking in the current code to make it seem to work
two weeks of testing - these guys always take their sweet time
one hour to fix the cosmetic bug found by the QE team in the first day of tsting
two more weeks of testing - actually they assume everything is fine and don't test anything
PATCH DAY - pistoleers are uber because they're the only class that actually works
patch day+1 - pistoleers are nerfed into extinction because they are uber, it will take one year of nerfing other classes until pistoleers are actually better than dancers
JohnMarble
Sat Mar 20, 2004 5:23 pm
#10
Yes, you see, they call it "programmer bandwidth." They have to pick and choose their priorities, make sure they get the most important issues taken care of first, before they worry about lesser issues such as pistoleer's specials.
Like revamping Junk Dealers.
Raptor2k1
Sat Mar 20, 2004 7:53 pm
#11
If you ever find out why it's so hard to fix them, let the commandos know what's holding up progress. 
BZebub
Sun Mar 21, 2004 1:02 am
#12
first, well, i would not expect to get a dev response at all, especially on the pistoleer forums.
second, i hope you were talking about a pizza pie. chocolate pie with pepperoni, mushrooms, and mountain dew sounds kinda nasty...
...unless you take away the chocolate pie, pepperoni, and mushrooms 
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