Pistoleer Archive

They (the model of the pistol)also dont show up for other people when you have them equipped or it does appear but isclipped in with the model of another gun. I found the way to fix this is to equip another gun, then unequipit, and then equip the DE-10.This seems t be a viable workaround, but there is a definite display problem where you can see it and other peopel can not. Also this doesnt always fix it for everybody some peoipel STILL cant see them but this usualyl fixes it..

Im going to bring the point of the barrels back up sicne nobody has made any notice of this except myself...

the barrels do have mods, but they are not visible. I have a case in point which will work as an example. Typically yellow titled looted items have bewtter mods.

yellow barrel + 83 krayt tissue = 388 pistol unsliced

white barrel + 96 krayt tissue = 359 pistol unsliced.

white barrel + 96 tissue 354 damage unslcied

ths is suggestive that the barrels in fact DO have mods but they are not being visible and the apparent difference between white and yellow barrels seems to be extreme. I wish i did not make the mistake of using any barrel i could get my hands on because there is obviously a problem. I would not have used +96 tissue without one of these yellow barrels if it was known that they actualyl do have mods. I am kinda angry about this.

I swear the devs hate me

Stealth mcownzjoo of valcyn server

master pistoleer since augest

stealth mcownzjoo of valcyn

master pistoleer since augest

That really is frustrating that you put so many resources into the crafting of those items with bugged barrels. I still haven't heard anything back, but it's only been a day.

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"...You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." biwan:
Former Pistoleer Correspondent (02/04/04 - 09/05/04)

the weaker tissue is more than30 maxdammage stronger.... I'll find out more info from my weaponsmith and or the owner of theother gunswhen he/they get on. The weaponsmith who made them for meis the one who noticed this andwe are gonan run some comparisons if we can. He is the best weaponsmith on my server and has done all my custom orders for like 8 months or more:he made ALL of my uber krayt pistols except my prenerf krayt LP's which was a giftfrom my guild leader. I didnt have the yellow barrels myself, I used whites becasue i didnt think it matters with no mods being visible and all.

Iused +96 -0.627 tissue on both of them (I supplied the tissue). I also had a scatter made with the same tissue at the same time, the scatter came out 1.6 249 max i still have yet to slice any of these 3 pistols.

I will post my exact stats here. I dont know anything about the yellow barrel pistol other than it came out in max damage. My weaponsmith told me about this and how he thought it was weird. I KNOW he didnt rip me off on my tissue becasue im a very good customer of his and a friend, and have had him do all of my custom orders for over 8 months. thereseems to be asignificant discrepency if significantly weaker tissue is coming out with 30+ damage over stronger tissue man, but I'll get more stats as soon as i can. As far as I am aware there is NOT that much of a tolerance in crafting that would make such a big difference in damage unless the barrels do in fact have hidden stats.
here are the stats of my guns:

Stealth's Death Machine MK1
1177/1177 condition
3.6 speed
139-357 damage (yes .357 haha)
37.2% wound
range: -2@ 0m // +59@20m // -80@ 64m
48/78/48 ham

Stealth's Death Machine MK2
980/980 condition
3.6 speed
139-354 damage
37.3% wound
range: -2 @0m // +59 @20m // -80 @64m
48/80/48 ham

Those are my 2 DE-10's. I had them made with +96 -0.627 tissue which i supplied, as wwell as 2 schematics and 2 barrels (both white)which i supplied

As soon as i can get the exact preslice stats of some yellow barrel guns i will i was going off what my WS told me on the earlier one. I need to do a little more research but i know at least 2 cases (onoly other 2 new DE-10's i know of) who both used yellow barrels and weaker tissue and got stronger pistols. I'll reply with this info ASAP.

I am going to contact a CSR now. I' will reply as soon as I find out more information.

Stealth Mcownzjoo of Valcyn
Master Pistoleer since AUGEST (never changed my template)

EDIT: I would like to apologize for accidentally misstating the damage of my own pistol as 359 in the original post. It is actually 357 max not 359.

I spoke to Arox, the weaponsmith who made my guns and who made the original notice of this issue, and hes going to make a post here as soon as he gets a chance. He knows his stuff and isalso the best andmost respectable WS i knowout of allof the servers I've played on.He's been a master WS probably as long as I've been a pistoleerif not close.

Then, hopefully we can have somethign done. I really want the CSR's to give me back my tissue schematics and barrels though, because had this been known, i would not have used +96 tissue in such a gamble (invisible mods vs no mods). It might also be that whites have no mods and yellows DO have mods that are hidden. This isprobably a lot more complex than it seems, and it NEEDS to be resolved.

Stealth Mcownzjoo (valcyn server)

Master Pistoleer since augest

Normal variance and bad experimentation is not enough to explain why the yellow/83 gun is~30 damage better than the white/96 guns when it should be 13 lower.

A difference of~40 max damage would require a truly massive failure, like if the crafter put half his points into damage in one go and it crit-failed. If that happened, I imagine that they would have told the customer that the experimentation failed and this weapon would be significantly worse than normal.

Also the two white/96 guns are similar enough to be accounted for by either a minor failure in experimentation (mod success when doing 1 or 2 points at a time). The 357 max looks like a perfect build since it was experimented on durability (WS do not experiment durability until damage is maxed), the 354 looks like it got one or two mod successes and the crafter was unable to fully recover and bring it to perfect damage stats.

There is a bug that can produce better than normal stats, but it is extremely rare and the effects don't match up with this. I've been WS since release and it's only happened to me once. Ityielded +15 max, -0.2 speed, and + some small amount of wound on a laser rifle. The only difference on the DE-10s is the damage, so it can't be this bug. The most logical conclusion is that the barrels have invisible stats.

Didn't they say they fixed the barrel stats on TC a while ago? My guess is that they did fix it, but the stats are invisible.

POKEY THE PENGUIN SIG REMOVED BY GARVA BECAUSE "Just because you are crafty enough to get around the technicality of it being a .jpg or .gif does not mean it is not an image, it is not ascii art, it is an image" SO HERE IS MY NEW SIG.
HUGE UGLY SIG

djswift2k has kindly started a thread in the Weaponsmith forum to get to the bottom of this issue. In the meantime, I've added the possibility of invisible stats to my bug report.

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"...You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." biwan:
Former Pistoleer Correspondent (02/04/04 - 09/05/04)

hehe yeah i can tell you the WS didnt mess up. Arox (lurax on the boards) made them and hes the best smith on our server by leaps and bounds, as well as any server i have ever played on. He also is +12 experimentation, and hes been a master WS for at least close to how long i have been a master pistoleer (since augest), and has been doing all my custom work for about 8 months.I put up a thread on the WS boards to try to collect some more detailed data so i can perform a more complicated analysis to give to Randonb so he can go get the devs to do something about this. (I pm'ed him and he said i need more data, so i wen to go collect ) I'malmost positive that the problem is that white barrels have no mods and yellows have hidden mods. the discrepencys are way too high for it to be standard crafting discrepencies, and this is by far and away the most logical explanation.

Im going to refer you to my post on the WS boards because thats where the data will be on this issue.

WS board polling WS's for specific crafted stats

Stealth Mcownzjoo of valcyn

arox is my god

stealth mcownzjoo of valcyn

First of all, the 2 I made for Stealth used +96/-.63 krayt tissue and yeilded the guns posted on the pistoleer thread. The second one had 2 moderate successes and came out 3 points of damage lower, but I'm going to assume they *should* have been identical (all other stats matched, meaning both white barrels probably had identical hidden stats).

so with +96 max -.63 speed over base crafted numbers, you get

which would imply that the 'base' crafted stats for an unenhanced DE-10 with 'base' DE-10 barrels and Valcyn's best resourcesis around

I've made3 yellow-text barreled DE-10s, all with the same resources

1) +83/-.7 krayt tissue ---> 3.3 speed 142-388 dmg

2) +94/-.7 krayt tissue ---> 3.5 speed 142-390 dmg

3) +57/-.3 krayt tissue ---> 3.7 speed 141-320 dmg

so, subtracting tissues, you get unenhanced stats (with the yellow barrels) at:

1) 4.0 speed 142-305 dmg

2) 4.2 speed 142-296 dmg

3) 4.0 speed 141-263 dmg

Subtracting base stats with white barrels gives you

1) -.2 speed +3 min +44 max

2) -0 speed +3 min +35 max

3) -.2 speed +2 min +2 max

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so basically, it's confirmed that the DE-10 barrels have hidden stats, and that the stats can vary.

Arox Elodda - Valcyn
- Valcyn's first crafter with maxed experimentation and assembly bonus -
Now an apprentice Force-User
Emay Elodda - Shipwright, resource hoarder
Vendors at 1777 -5333 Rori, in Athens