Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Ways to boost pistoleer power, while keeping other classes value.
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NaKitNa
Tue May 25, 2004 11:32 pm
#1
One of the biggest challenges right now for pistoleers is our uselessness in high level PvE. I think a valid solution would be to give us the ability to negate NPC armor and a damage bonus vs. NPC's. The armor negation could bea special like **edit** in the armor or something like that. That has been where pistols have found the most use. Yeah I dont think I would want to take my pistol out krayt hunting, but it should be a formidable weapon against most races across the galaxy, human or otherwise. This would preserve the Rifleman's and Carbineers edge with more heavily armored opponents especially krayts. AT-ST's and the like while allowing the pistoleer to be appreciated in combat. Tonight atthe bunker on furthered the obvious... that pistoleers lack the ability to compete in high level dungeons with other elite combat classes. Fanshot (arguably our best attack) was murder. Knockdown was almost impossile to use. No matter the attack so little damage got through, it was nearly worthless. In fact, were it not for the kindness of groupmates iwould have never gotten a schem, I couldnt outdamage anyone to get loot right, where my guild wasnt at.
Just an idea that doesnt step on the toes of other combat classes but still gives us a place and usefulness with the rest of our elite combat bretheren.
Ryche_Mykola
Wed May 26, 2004 8:32 am
#2
I think the devs should give Pistoleers a model of pistol for each damage type.
ie.......Move Launcher Pistol Certification to Pistoleer, then you could do Blast Damage (make it light armor piercing, if it isn't already).
You guys should also get a Lightning Pistol (electricity damage type). Since a lot of PvE creatures have an Electricity Vulnerability, I think this might breathe some new life into Pistoleers.
FrankLee
Wed May 26, 2004 12:09 pm
#3
Honestly, if they just fixed up some of the specials so that they work, we'd be in a good way.
Fanshot's great, I cleared tons of high-end mobs with it this morning (after the clown-patch).
If they could get multi-target pistol shot and pointblankarea2 working, we'd have our nice close-range AOE attacks. We should have an AOE health bleed (especially since bleeds are only marginally useful now) as well, but I can live wihout it.
The capacity to target unarmored areas, or chinks in armor, would be useful to us. If we had a special that was relatively slow (because you're aiming carefully) that allowed us to bypass armor, we'd be set. Make it HAM-random, so you can't just spam it in conjunction with a health hit and pray. If there weren't armor holes, as in a fully armored human, then we're SOL. Much like a street thug shooting robocop.
Fanshot's great, I cleared tons of high-end mobs with it this morning (after the clown-patch).
If they could get multi-target pistol shot and pointblankarea2 working, we'd have our nice close-range AOE attacks. We should have an AOE health bleed (especially since bleeds are only marginally useful now) as well, but I can live wihout it.
The capacity to target unarmored areas, or chinks in armor, would be useful to us. If we had a special that was relatively slow (because you're aiming carefully) that allowed us to bypass armor, we'd be set. Make it HAM-random, so you can't just spam it in conjunction with a health hit and pray. If there weren't armor holes, as in a fully armored human, then we're SOL. Much like a street thug shooting robocop.
NaKitNa
Wed May 26, 2004 12:18 pm
#4
We just really need to compete in high level dungeons like a carbineer or a rifleman can. We need to be viable. Because of the lack of AP and then just damage in general, our contribution to high level creatures is nill. Time and time again I am almost useless and certainly cantstand against high level enemies. Any melee class can out match us on damage by large leaps and bounds. I know the combat balance is coming, but SOE past record of meeting expectation isnt great. Makes me nervous, just an idea that I think is valid. Not that it owld ever reach their ears but still.
FrankLee
Wed May 26, 2004 12:22 pm
#5
I was partied with a master commando on dathomir this morning, and I hauled his fat out of the fire on more than one occasion.
We do just fine, for the damage types we can touch. Maybe we need some varied weapons, or a few AP2 weapons, but in general I can take a herd of nightsisters without breaking a sweat.
Hell, I took 2 rancors and a Black Sun Henchman simultaneously, and the pistol did all the work.
We aren't melee tanks, and we aren't armor-busters. We're fast and light.
We do just fine, for the damage types we can touch. Maybe we need some varied weapons, or a few AP2 weapons, but in general I can take a herd of nightsisters without breaking a sweat.
Hell, I took 2 rancors and a Black Sun Henchman simultaneously, and the pistol did all the work.
We aren't melee tanks, and we aren't armor-busters. We're fast and light.
Billreb
Wed May 26, 2004 10:27 pm
#6
Well Frank we already have a AOE Bleed, just use a Modifed Republic Blaster and Fanshot I found it works rather nicely.
Mr_Wibble
Thu May 27, 2004 2:23 am
#7
Ryche_Mykola wrote:
I think the devs should give Pistoleers a model of pistol for each damage type.
ie.......Move Launcher Pistol Certification to Pistoleer, then you could do Blast Damage (make it light armor piercing, if it isn't already).
You guys should also get a Lightning Pistol (electricity damage type). Since a lot of PvE creatures have an Electricity Vulnerability, I think this might breathe some new life into Pistoleers.
I don't think we need to be able to dish out any damage type, nor do I think we need the LP. An AP1 cold pistol would do me to expand our damage types.
MetallicaJunkie
Thu May 27, 2004 5:31 am
#9
Datchery wrote:
How about an AP2 cold pistol?
If you think about it in realistic terms, you could only reallyhave a kinetic, energy or acid guns that pierce real armour. And what pistoleer really needs is a medium armour piercing gun, and where a pistoleer special that completely ignores armour would be handy, it would upset the balance when we go and speed cap that special, we would in terms of PvE become riflemen, and Carbineers ain't gonna like that. I've been a pistoleer, I've been a carbineer, I've been a Bounty Hunter and I've been cominations of all three. None of which really compare to riflemen PvE or PvP and I really feel that whatever changes pistoleer suggests should be realistic and NOT put us above either carbineer or bounty hunter, we need to talk to carbineers and bounty hunters and find some way for either all of us to put back to proper standing with all marksmen being equal or make the devs see the current inbalance and bring rifleman back down to where we were all left.
Murton
Genocide
Eclispe Server
A diplomat with a pistol
JawaJoey2
Thu May 27, 2004 3:03 pm
#10
Fencers have a mvoe that ignores defenses and there's BIG talk about that being an exploit and it should be changed... and that's a hassle I think Pistoleers DON'T want. I do think that pistols should get some advantage against Humanoid targets. When you're out hunting for giant monsters, you don't bring your pistol, but when you're shooting at some guy, you surely don't automatically pick up your flamethrower. I don't know how this could be implemented, but it's a good idea. Making us stronger against humanoids would make us more valuable in dungeons and base raids, and it'd help us a lot if it applied to PvP as well. But just giving us armor peircing would only make us more powerful over all, and the only amount sufficient to balance us out would make us overpowered in other areas.
there should be a skill mod or something that increase damage vs certain types of enemies.
NaKitNa
Sat May 29, 2004 4:06 pm
#11
For those pistoleers contending that we dont need improved capacity against high levels dungeons, please layout for all of us masters, how to be useful in the DWB? This isnt an insult, but a sincere request to help all of us find usefulness inthe dungeon compared to the other classes: Please no suggestions of specials/equipment not available to a Master Pistoleer. I.E. no BH/Commando/Smuggler Abilities as this is the pistoleer forum.
Blacksun Henchmen... ok those arent too bad. But everything else has Med armor... so this presents significant issues
1) Med Armor/Heavy Armor: At best our weapons our cut down to 50% damage if using one of the AP1 pistols: What are your suggestions in compensating for this? We have the least damaging weapons to begin with, then to couple it with 50% damage reduction without consideration of resistances.
2) Resistances: Actually we do ok against some of the denizens in this aspect... Acid several types have the lower resistances to acid, I think as low as 40 or 45% The tougher opponents however seem only to be vulnerable to electricity or cold... those also seem to have 90%-100% against other types aside from restraint. How do we get past these resistance and be effective when our damage is already the lowest AND cut in half. (Fencers experience many of the same issues)
3) Defenses: They have extremely high resistances vs our knockdowns and are still hard to hit with our accuracy modifiers unless we are on top of them. What approach would you use?
4) We do have a high dodge, but lack a lot of the defenses of a melee class, thus making it hard for us to maximize our damage and accuracy. How do you survive so close without the defensive modifiers of a melee class? These NPCs are dealing out huge damage and those that have been there know full well that they shred armor. Even with 80% comp they are pushing over 400 points past the armor. Many of their attacks are passing the armor completely.
I think the AP specials are viable and could make us viable as an Elite combat class. I have been a pistoleer since July and am quite versed in using this class. I have tried everything in these high end combat situations. We are hard pressed to be useful. Again I dont think we should be able to solo a Krayt... pistols arent designed for big game, but they are designed to be very effective vs people (humans, humanoids, etc...)
NaKitNa
Sat May 29, 2004 4:08 pm
#12
JawaJoey2 wrote:
Fencers have a mvoe that ignores defenses and there's BIG talk about that being an exploit and it should be changed... and that's a hassle I think Pistoleers DON'T want. I do think that pistols should get some advantage against Humanoid targets. When you're out hunting for giant monsters, you don't bring your pistol, but when you're shooting at some guy, you surely don't automatically pick up your flamethrower. I don't know how this could be implemented, but it's a good idea. Making us stronger against humanoids would make us more valuable in dungeons and base raids, and it'd help us a lot if it applied to PvP as well. But just giving us armor peircing would only make us more powerful over all, and the only amount sufficient to balance us out would make us overpowered in other areas.
there should be a skill mod or something that increase damage vs certain types of enemies.
If oyu notice in my original post they are specials for NPC's only, not creatures
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