Pistoleer Archive
Thread: What's wrong with Galaxies
What's wrong with Galaxies (an honest appraisal)
What you, as a customer, think is "right" or "wrong" with Galaxies is largely a matter of perspective. The professions/skills you choose, your personal style of gameplay, your personal goals within Galaxies, will all affect your perception of the state of the game.
So for starters, what's my perspective? I'm a longtime computer gamer who is relatively new to the MMORPG genre. I started Galaxies on the day of its release and have played pretty much daily since then. I dabbled with Merchant, then moved on to my current profile of Master Pistoleer / Master Creature Handler. I live in a Player City that was planned by some online friends while Galaxies was in Beta. I dabble in PvP, do very little RP, and try to provide support to other members of our City who have attempted to hologrind their way to Jedi, although I have not chosen that path.
So, from that perspective, and with the input of some of my friends in Galaxies ... what's wrong?
1. Quality Should Be Job 1 -- It's Not: Since the first day of release and our introduction to the Little Database That Couldn't, SWG customers have bemoaned the poor quality of the game's code. We all know it was pushed out of Beta prematurely, and we all know that the devs have been playing catchup ever since release because of this regrettable decision. The fact that, more than eight months after release, a Pistoleer could have 12 special attacks, but that only two of them work even remotely as intended (as detailed exhaustively on the Pistoleer forums), is simply inexcusable. The same is true for pathing, movement, auto-storing and special attacks bugs with pets. As we near the Space Expansion, there is no reason to think that SOE management will decide that it's better to walk before you run ... they seem quite committed to trying to fly before pets can walk & chew gum at the same time.
Code is inadequately tested on the Test Center servers, resulting in unnecessary bugs that are introduced with Publication and persist for weeks, or even months. For a while there was a lot of talk about fixing these issues by bringing Character Copy to the Test Center for a more rigorous test of code in a production-level environment. That talk seems to have faded, and we're left with exactly the same inadequate testing procedures we started with. The results are obvious, and the lack of progress is a major disappointment to customers.
We are frequently told that inadequate testing and poor quality control is somehow "natural" in the MMORPG genre, or that this is due to the "complexity" of the game. I don't know anyone who finds such excuses very persuasive. The complexity comes from deliberate design decisions. Designing a game that is more complex than your ability to properly test and bug-fix is simply a poor management decision. Don't build what you can't properly maintain.
2. The Galactic Police Action: Most of us with even a passing interest in PvP were eager to see what shape the devs would give to their oft-hyped Galactic Civil War. I think there is a concensus among players that this has been mostly a failure.
First, it is a failure because there is no strategic aspect to the War. It is a series of random tactical firefights, but at the end of the day (or month), there is no real consequence to winning or losing these engagements. For that reason, there is never any sense of progress or accomplishment in the GCW.
Second, the mechanics of PvP strongly discourage anyone interested in combat tactics from participating. The poor design of TEF, particularly GTEF, has turned off so many people who were otherwise strongly motivated to participate in PvP that the overall quality of play is harmed. Players are reduced to drawing up lists of players and guilds they won't PvP with because those players or guilds are GTEF exploiters. For months this situation has festered with little or no comment from the development team. We can't know if they simply dismiss this as a significant problem despite customer input, or if they can't find a way out of this design box.
Finally, the "B" word (balance) hangs over the GCW like a stormcloud. The GCW is fundamentally about PvP, and PvP at the moment is fundamentally about choosing one of a small group of templates that give you enormous tactical advantages. Several supposedly 'elite' combat professions are helpless as babes against certain other 'elite' professions. Perhaps the 'combat balance' we are promised, that has become the standard answer to most reasonable requests for fixing systems that should have been fixed in Beta or certainly months ago, will actually resolve some of these issues. I'm skeptical, frankly, because every big piece of new code pushed to the Live servers so far has only brought a raft of new quality issues and balance problems. Since this 'combat balance' will, like releases before it, be inadequately tested against real-game conditions and is being designed by people who have consistently demonstrated a poor understanding of how the customers are actually playing the game, I'm hesitant to put much faith in the 'balance' as the answer to many problems.
3. It's the Economy, Stupid: One of the 'groundbreaking' aspects of Galaxies was meant to be its player economy, and the crucial role of crafters in the game. I think many crafters genuinely enjoy their place in the game, and I'd call that a moderate success. But an 'economy' requires stability, predictability, information, and reliability. Galaxies does not shine at any of those things.
There are no tools to inform a crafter about prices across their galaxy, so they must usually just guess at a "fair" price, put it on the vendor, and hope it sells ... try lowering the price if it doesn't. They must also hope that a large number of items that they invested time, materials and effort to create will not become relatively valueless because of arbitrary and mostly indefensible decisions to retroactively diminish those items' worth, as recently happened with FWG5 pistols. This decision damaged customer confidence that what they buy today will be valuable tomorrow. It damaged crafter confidence that what they invest resources in crafting today will ultimately be worth more than it cost to craft.
Nothing damages an economy more than a lack of confidence by buyer and seller in the stability of the system. Occasionally the devs drag out the specter of "money sinks" and their necessity for the good of the player economy, but most longtime players seem skeptical that there is any valid argument there, in the face of rampant credit and resource duping that flooded every server with millions or billions of credits. We have no reliable numbers to work with here, as we're kept in the dark about the true nature of the problem for the player economy, but most crafters seem to recognize that, for particularly rare items, price will almost never be an object because somebody out there will have a ridiculous amount of duped or e-bay'd credits to blow on a rarity. Again, customer confidence is damaged by this perception of imbalance.
4. The Dilbert Effect: Ultimately, Galaxies' problems all boil down to one central issue: management. The concensus among veteran players in our Player City is that the Galaxies project is being managed, or mismanaged, right into the ground. You get the impression that Dilbert's "pointy-haired boss" is running the show.
This shows up in numerous areas. A prime example would be what's happened to Droid Engineers in Galaxies. For six months they struggled through innumerable broken systems and an almost complete lack of interesting droids that anyone outside a very narrow market of specialists would have a desire to buy. Finally they were told that the neglect of the profession would be resolved by a nearly exclusive focus on that profession in the January and February Publish schedules. Then they became aware of a "Droid Handler" profession that would be imposed as part of this solution, although almost none of them wanted this approach and it would do almost nothing to address their central issues. Now we're in March and very little has been done, because we're told that resources have been shifted around internally to deal with the GCW and Space Expansion coding. What we've been told will be done in the Publish 8 timeframe isn't getting anyone very excited ... it looks like a Band-Aid, and not a very big one.
The examples could go on for twenty pages, Droid Engineer is just an easy one. In this case, the Galaxies management team let a problem slide completely out of control through lack of attention, promised to fix it, then delivered a weak (and late) set of fixes that left both DE's and the people who wish there was something useful to buy from DE's frustrated and wondering what's next.
I don't mean to suggest that managing a large development project like Galaxies is easy ... it's not. But it also isn't impossible to do well. Not only has it not been done well so far, but there is really, from the customer perspective, no sign of progress. Deadlines are still missed, goals are still murky, poor-quality code is still pushed onto the Live servers, and developers still seem to consistently misunderstand or ignore core customer concerns.
The exisiting management team seems unable to overcome the inertia of the premature termination of Beta. What they consider "major" efforts like the Imperial Crackdown and Droid Invasion are seen by customers as very minor cosmetic changes with little or no impact on the game's central problems.
5. Conclusions -- Is There a New Hope (or any)? I confess to being a pessimist here, because I really don't see an acknowledgment of the scale of the problem at SOE. Whenever an SOE representative posts to our forums, they seem glowingly optimistic about how much progress has been made, but to the customers I know this optimism seems strangely at odds with our actual experience using the product ... we're not that thrilled with the Emperor's new clothes. If you don't admit the size of the problem, you'll never make the changes necessary to really fix things.
Galaxies was and is a project of immense potential. It is beautiful to look at, and to listen to, but all too often frustrating to play because of the disconnect between its potential and its execution of fundamental systems. Without major, almost revolutionary, change in its management team and development processes, I'm afraid it faces an apocalyptic crash in the coming year.
How many times have you heard someone who so very much wanted to like this game, someone you enjoy playing with, say "Only the people I play with are keeping me here" ? How many excellent players did the game lose over the last six months out of simple frustration and disappointment? My fear is that when the first really viable, reliable alternative to Galaxies comes out, the exodus will start as a trickle, but will grow to a swift rush as everyone follows those people who kept them in the game out the exit. At that point, you'll have underpopulated servers and insufficient cash flow to support fixing the game, and all that potential will become a distant memory. Then you can only hope that SOE wraps up the project and closes the servers with a spectacular Deathstar attack on every planet for the last few hardy souls to witness.
As for me ... still here because of the people. But I see about half of our city edging toward the door in hopes of an alternative with better focus and quality, and when they go, I'm right behind them.
Wow, impressive post KzinKiller. Easy to read and understandable. And regretably true. Down to the last letter. I always felt the 'suits' decision to release this game was met with angst and trepidation from the programers. At least thats what I want to believe.
I agree that many are 'hanging on' do to the 'friends' piece of the puzzle. But you can't count out the theme that this MMORG is based on. Star Wars was, and still is a big chunk of Sci-Fi history. Probably the best known story in the community. I have met countless people ingame that mentioned in passing that this was thier first MMORG. What else would have so much pull as to attract a demographic of 11 - 50 year olds?
Perhaps eventually that 'well' that SONY's lawyers have successfully claimed the rights to will start to dry up. But it will not be anytime soon. This is my only reasoning as to why such a premature release of a underdeveloped game has survived and may well survive into the foreseeable future.
excellent post , i agree with virtually everything you have written . swg being my first online game i cant compare this game to any other . the only reason i will persist with this game is because a lot of mmorpg veterens say that it takes a around a year for game bugs / code / balance to be fixed .
i think the reason why swg combat is so unbalanced is because swg is unique in the sense that a chracter can dabble ( i have been told that in other games such as everquest each character had a very specific role withobvious strenghs and weaknesses . lets just hope sony gets it act togeather.
oahep acto
Kzinkillers post is a work of art. I agree on every point Kzinkiller made. I also have been playing SWG since it's release and before SWG, I had played the god father of mmorpgs Ultima Online for 5 years.
Quality Should Be Job 1: I agree 100%, SWG was released way to early and many special attacks still don't seem to work like they were designed to. Seven months ago SOE said they were going to have a character copy system set up so players could accurately test proposed changes but we still have yet to see such a character copy system for the test center from SOE.
The Galactic Police Action: I agree 100%. Except for a lot of Imperial NPCs in certain cities I don't see what the what the big deal is about the GCW. I do know that SOE counts up 3rd deadeye badges that have been received by Rebel players and Imperial players andcalculatesthese statisics to judge who is winnig the GCW but that couldhardly be counted asawayof winning a conflict in anmmorpg. Ballance in SWG PvP does not exist. PvP in SWG is 40% skill and 60%high costitems like spliced Adv/Ken comp armor, krayt tissue enhanced weapons and lets not forget the lower cost items like a good supply of crates of spices and a good buff. Sadly, PvP in SWG has become a sport for the more wealthy players who can afford the above mentioned items. If the cost of the above mentioned items were cheaper then perhaps PvP might be a considered more balanced and that leads me to the next topic.
It's The Economy, Stupid: High prices of itemslikearmor are sounreal! It's funny how the devs said that they wantedarmor in SWG to be anunimportant part of SWG yet it seems that the very opposite is true. For most, PvPwithout wearing armorin SWG is a death wish and any armor that is worn better be normal comp armor or better because anything less is close to garbage when your hit by a krayt tissue enhanced weapon. If the devs reduced the cost oftheresources used to make armor then prices would be greatly lowered but to do that would mean that the devs would have to except that armor in SWGwould become more important and thats not what the devs ever had in mind for armor. Something I do a lot of in SWG is help newbies. It breaks my hart when a newb says that they have 16k and want to know where they can buy a nice set of armor,because I just don'thave the hart to tell the poor newb that he or shewill have to fork out at least 120,000 credits or more for a nice set of armor that will probably not even be wearable unless they set their stats and pay 16,000 creditsmore to have there new unspliced armor spliced. And last but not least isthe damaging effect that credit duping has had on the SWG'svitural economy. I have met very few people who have notalreadybought ebay dup'ed SWG credits on ebay. And while I have not bought dup'ed SWG credits on ebay, I must admit that it is very tempting to do so because at the moment I only have 5 million credits in my bank and I have been playing SWG since it's release! Thanks to credit duping in SWG, prices have gone up, thus making it that much more harder for a new player to start SWG unless they alsobuy dup'ed ebay credits.
Im going to skip to the hart of this entire problem. Conclusions -- IsThere A new Hope (or any)?: I blame most problems in SWGdirectly on SOE because SWG should of never been released until it was finished. Whats worse is that months after SWG was released, SOE seemed to lack a direction on where they were taking the game and because of their lack of direction we have seen skills nerfed, renerfed and now un-nerfed. It was early December when SOE announced that they were redoing the entire combat system over. I think that SOE is taking the combat system in the right direction but why didittakeSOEalmost 6 months after SWG's release to make this decision? One thing for sure is that November of last year SOE did add some new devs to SWG and one of these newly hired devs is one of Richard (Lord British) Garrorts devs. I take this as a sign of hope and now see a brighter future for SWG but that still does not anger me any less that we had to wait almost 6 months for SOE to find some direction on where theyweretaking SWG. And last of all, lets not forget ships! This upcoming space expansion pack is very very important to the furture of SWG because you can't watch a Star Wars movie with out seeing space ships in space andplayers shouldn't have to pay to play a Star Wars game without space ships! Like so many otherswho play SWG,I have been waiting since the release of SWG for space ships. I now wonder if it's even possible for an SWG space expansion because of the normal server lag that SWG and allother online mmorpgs suffer from. My computer is super powerful and has a cable connection and I still suffer lag in SWG. I know normal lag is unavoidable but when your in space combat lag can be a killer!
For now I'm going to keep up hope that SWG will get better but SOE better get this upcoming space expansion pack live because I am losing patients with SOE and I am not the only one!
DrBonzai,
Wanderhome.
Message Edited by PillowTech on 03-14-2004 09:23 PM
PillowTech wrote:
What's wrong with SWG? The players who look at this as just another MMORPG. It isn't, it's freaking Star Wars people. I hate listening to people cry and cry about how unbalanced the game is. It should be unbalanced!!!! The rebels were a rag-tag resistance group and the empire was a over-powering army. The rebels didn't beat the empire by numbers. I can't wait for World of Warcraft to come out so some of you people will go away. By the way if you think SOE is bad about patching and fixing bugs, which they aren't, have funny over at Blizzard where this May means October three years from now. SWG is a GREAT game, with a few problems, which gets better after EVERY publish!!! Did they push out of Beta a little early maybe but SWG has come leaps and bounds in the last six months. That's just this fanboys two cents.![]()
Message Edited by PillowTech on 03-14-2004 09:23 PM
PillowTech wrote:
What's wrong with SWG? The players who look at this as just another MMORPG. It isn't, it's freaking Star Wars people. I hate listening to people cry and cry about how unbalanced the game is. It should be unbalanced!!!! The rebels were a rag-tag resistance group and the empire was a over-powering army. The rebels didn't beat the empire by numbers. I can't wait for World of Warcraft to come out so some of you people will go away. By the way if you think SOE is bad about patching and fixing bugs, which they aren't, have funny over at Blizzard where this May means October three years from now. SWG is a GREAT game, with a few problems, which gets better after EVERY publish!!! Did they push out of Beta a little early maybe but SWG has come leaps and bounds in the last six months. That's just this fanboys two cents.![]()
Message Edited by PillowTech on 03-14-2004 09:23 PM
Um..... I am not crying. I enjoy SWG very much but I still think that in the past SOE had badly handled Star Was Galaxies. I remember when I started Teras Kasi,september of last year. The dev had a complete lack of direction on where they were taking Teras Kasi andall the other combat professions.
Here is a pastexampleof the devs lack of direction:In Star Wars legend, an entire population of people were enslaved by dark jedi and it was this enslaved population of people who through out their years of enslavement secretly created a form of unarmed combat called Teras Kasi so thatwhen thetime was right, theywould break their bonds of slavery by over throwing their dark jedi masters who so brutally enslaved them. And it was becauseofsuccess of Teras Kasi against the dark jedi that makes all dark jedi fear Teras Kasi.
If you read the original SWG players manual your see a redicules quote about a Teras Kasi master dodging laser bolts from a blaster! When SWG was being beta tested, many of the beta testers fell in love with Teras Kasi. In late September of last year,theSOE representative Holocron, told us that the devs not only thought TKA's were too over powered but they thought many of the other combat professions were to over powered which made the game much to easy to level in skills. We TKA's thenwere given a nerffor the 3rd time in 2 months except the 3rd nerf was the most stupid nerf one could imagine because they took an already badly broken melee profession who's melee defences weren't working and nerfed it's only real defence, Knock Down! At the time knock down was the only real defence TKA's that worked because the devs did not fix the TKAs combatnatural combat defences. So the devs came up with a quick solution ofputting a massive HAM cost on all TKA's specials so the end result was TKA's were literally incapping them selves while using their special attacksand that was with out vibro knuckles equiped! I remember the devs trying to fix some issues with the pikemanprofession with the release of a patch but the patch ended up making the pikemanprofession almost unplayable so that now you dont see many pikemen in the game. If you don't think some of what I've written here shows that in the past SOE and its devs assigned to SWG lack direction then your blind as a bat.
I want to reiterate that I still enjoy SWG very much and now since SOE hired and assigned one ofRichard(Lord British) Garrotsdevs to SWG, we are starting to see this game move in the right direction! My post was not meant to beperceived as flame.However I do have the right to vent some steam overby posting on the forums my dissatisfactionover some of SWG's past and present issues.
DrBonzai,
Wanderhome.