Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Sure this has been posted
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JaceFreedark
Mon Feb 28, 2005 3:18 am
#1
Is stopping shot worth a crap? Cause I have't "stopped" anthing. Health shot 2 all the way?
BadgerSmaker
Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:08 am
#2
When speedcapped, Stopping Shot is Pure Pistoleers highest damage special, but hits random HAM.
Health Shot 2 has high DPS and targets the health pool and also sticks a bleed.
Stopping shot is quite nice to throw in after a sucessful PMD1 (knockdown) whether or not your are speedcapped.
And as for the description on specials, ignore them...
BeWary
Mon Feb 28, 2005 8:40 am
#3
BadgerSmaker wrote:
When speedcapped, Stopping Shot is Pure Pistoleers highest damage special, but hits random HAM.
Health Shot 2 has high DPS and targets the health pool and also sticks a bleed.
Stopping shot is quite nice to throw in after a sucessful PMD1 (knockdown) whether or not your are speedcapped.
And as for the description on specials, ignore them...
I can't believe you used "speedcapped" and "pure pistoleer" in the same post. A "pure" pistoleer, w/o attachments gets +74 pistol speed. The cap is a long ways off still. And your wrong about DPS, it's /fan all the way. Even against a single target. You just have to watch out for "uninvited guests" from the AOE. To answer the posters question, ya it's HS2 till ya puke unless you can line up a nice group for a /fan party. A pet can help keep the MOB's together and focused on something that isn't you.
Message Edited by BeWary on 02-28-2005 08:42 AM
BadgerSmaker
Mon Feb 28, 2005 9:01 am
#4
FS Melee Speed, CA/AA's, Pistol Speed+10 stims, s'not too hard.
Uthyr
Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:14 am
#5
BeWary wrote:
I can't believe you used "speedcapped" and "pure pistoleer" in the same post. A "pure" pistoleer, w/o attachments gets +74 pistol speed. The cap is a long ways off still. And your wrong about DPS, it's /fan all the way. Even against a single target. You just have to watch out for "uninvited guests" from the AOE. To answer the posters question, ya it's HS2 till ya puke unless you can line up a nice group for a /fan party. A pet can help keep the MOB's together and focused on something that isn't you.
As BadgerSmaker said, it's not at all difficult to make yourself speedcapped as a pure pistoleer. Also, even if you're not 100% speed capped, you can still be effectively capped if you're using a fast enough pistol.
Asfor Fan Shot being more powerful than Stopping Shot on single targets, that is only true if you are not speed capped or are using a slow pistol. For a speed-capped pistoleer on a 300-damage, 2.0-speedpistol (just to pick something typical), Fan Shot does 1200 damage per second, compared with 1500 per second for Stopping Shot (numbers are from Rem's weapons damage calculator). If you're not speed capped, then yes, Fan Shot does more damage on solo targets. The break-even point where both specials do about the same damage on solo mobs, again using a 2.0 speed pistol (this result varies greatly depending on the speed of the pistol),is around an 84-85 player speed mod, and it doesn't take much for a pure Pistoleer to get to that level. On multiple targets, Fan Shot always does more damage per group of mobs, as long as all the mobs are in the damage cone.
Personally, I am speed capped, and I find Stopping Shot just as useful as Fan Shot or Health Shot 2(more so, in many circumstances). I usethem allregularly, depending on the situation (I only use fan shot when I have multiple targets lined up properly). When I want to use a more focused attack to target one HAM pool, since I have BH pistols I'll usually use Torso Shot (Health Shot 2 would be the next best thing if you're a pure pistoleer--it does the same damage not counting the DoT).
I used to think Stopping Shot was misnamed because I expected it to take down mobs in a single shot, back when I first got that special. No special should be that powerful in this game though, pistoleer or otherwise. These days, by the time a mob starts to rush me, I have already weakened it with other specials, and a single Stopping Shot is often all it takes to bring it down. So itcan indeed stop rushing mobs.
Anyway, to answer the poster's original question, Stopping Shot can be a very useful special, depending on what pistol you are using and what your player speed mod is. You just have to keep in mind that it attacks random pools.
BeWary
Mon Feb 28, 2005 10:57 am
#7
What is a "pure" pistoleer then? it's a pistoleer who recieves no pistol bonus from anywhere other than the pistoleer tree. Or is your definition different than mine? FS speed lines are out of class skill mods, and even using a +10 speed stim, you still need +8 in AA/CA's.
Gun speed is irrelevant, "Capped" means you fire any gun, any special at one/second, not your fastest special on your fastest gun.
Uthyr
Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:40 pm
#8
BeWary wrote:
What is a "pure" pistoleer then? it's a pistoleer who recieves no pistol bonus from anywhere other than the pistoleer tree. Or is your definition different than mine? FS speed lines are out of class skill mods, and even using a +10 speed stim, you still need +8 in AA/CA's.
Gun speed is irrelevant, "Capped" means you fire any gun, any special at one/second, not your fastest special on your fastest gun.
The definition of "pure pistoleer" is purely semantics, and different people will have their own definitions. Personally, I think your definition is a pretty good one, BeWary, although I would personally consider a pistoleer using speed skill tapes to still be a "pure" pistoleer. It's definitely possible to be speed capped and still be a pure pistoleer (at least by my definition). It's just a lot easier if you pick up BH pistols or FS skills.
As for gun speed being irrelevant, though I understand your argument, I personally (and respectfully) disagree. If all of the guns you own are fast pistols, and you can fire every special at 1 shot per second (if your player speed mod is high enough) with every gun you'd ever use, then you're speed capped for all intents and purposes. Again it's just semantics. "Hard capped," "soft capped," capped because of SEA's vs. "natural" player mods.... what difference does it really make if the end result is the same?
BeWary
Mon Feb 28, 2005 12:53 pm
#9
the only time I've run into it really mattering is when you get a really sweet DOT pistol 
I have a nice 280 str, %80 potency mind poison FWG5, but it has the standard loot quality speed on it of 4.0. I may be able to fire all my current guns ( ok, not my dmg sliced DE-10, but all the others) at 1/second but when I equip that bad boy and do my CM impersonation with /fanshot I really notice the slow down.
I have a nice 280 str, %80 potency mind poison FWG5, but it has the standard loot quality speed on it of 4.0. I may be able to fire all my current guns ( ok, not my dmg sliced DE-10, but all the others) at 1/second but when I equip that bad boy and do my CM impersonation with /fanshot I really notice the slow down.The other time it matters is with our BFG. Unless you use REALLY fast tissues in it your not gonna be able to do much at 1/second with a DE-10 unless you have at least +90 pistol speed.
The origins of the "pure" debate ( for me)go way back. My experience with it has been in "should a pure pistoleer be viable?" type discussions. As in "pure" vs "stacked" pistol builds.The pistol stack is available, and how do you balance the abilities of the unstacked with the stacked? If a "pure" pistoleer is viable, does that not make the 3ple master or pistol All-Star overpowered?
But those days are pretty much gone. We've all come to accept the fact that if you don't go out of class your pretty much boned. It's just the state of the community. We've come to accept our role as stacker fuel. Once upon a time we had a dialogue with the devs and it actually looked like we were getting fixes. It was an exciting time.
The CU has rekindled alot of those feeling of excitement. It's been a long time since I felt good about the future of pistoleer.
And I do agree, it is simply a matter of semantics. I was just under the impression the "pure" pistoleer ment the same thing to eveyone else that it did to me.
Uthyr
Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:09 am
#10
I actually agree with everything you just said, BeWary. Yeah, you're definitely right that your speed isn't going to be capped with a DE-10 on all specials unless you've gota pretty high player speed mod (I figure it would have to be around 93). If you don't own a DE-10 though (I should do a poll sometime to see how many pistoleers actually own one, out of curiosity), you can be effectively capped at a much lower mod.
It really is unfortunate that pistoleers have to pick up other lines or skills just to be viable. Hopefully that will change very soon.
BadgerSmaker
Tue Mar 01, 2005 3:11 am
#11
By "Pure Pistoleer", I meant Master PIstoleer without BH Pistols, Dirty Fighting or Novice Commando, basically the profession a it stands in all its... *cough* glory.
There are quite a few players out there that use Master Pistoleer along with another profession, Ranger... Combat Medic, Doctor... a whole range of professions that don't directly enhance PIstol abilities.
I'm"speed capped" with my pistols (I fire all specials from them at 1 shot per second), the slowest one being a 2.6 speed DE-10, but I have to knock back a +10 pistol speed stim to make Stopping shot hit the cap.
I find it very challenging, and the ongoing quest for bigger and better guns from Krayt, Gorax and DWB drops, combined with the hunt for CA/AA's seems to provide something similar to end game content for Pistoleers, does for me anyway.
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