Pistoleer Archive
Thread: What PUP should I use on my pistol?
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Tango88
Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:42 am
#1
Hi all,I'm new to pistols (post-CU).Not a MP yet.I willmostly pvp with it in the near future. What kind of PUP should I use and what stats should i be looking for in it? My Featherweight FWG5 :
Speed : 1.66
Dmg : 370-966
Accuracy Bonus : 55
Estimated Dps : 403.54
SAC : 66
Thanks in Advance. 
Message Edited by Tango88 on 09-08-2005 02:42 AM
Message Edited by Tango88 on 09-08-2005 02:43 AM
Cookie-Eater
Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:20 pm
#3
BadgerSmaker wrote:
Stecoli wrote:
reenforced stock
Yup, Reinforced Stock, with around -27 % SAC cost and -7 Accuracy every day, all the time.
Yet I ask, why is it so easy to reach 70 SAC on a Carbine and not a pistol? Like only the uber pistols have 60-70 SAC. I can see normal Carbines with the same SAC as Normal Pistols!
ChefVomit
Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:42 pm
#4
Well to be honest, because of the crafting process it is actually a tad EASIER to cap out SAC and damage on a carbine than it is a pistol.
Let me explain. The two most popularly crafted carbines are the E11 and the Elite. For all intents and purposes, these are nearly identical carbines. Same speed, damage, and SAC caps. The only real difference is that the E11 takes one LESS tissue/enhancer to make, and it has slightly higher wound percentage.
For the most part on my server, any competent 12 pt WS can cap damage and SAC with any set of tissues/enhancers over +160. The Elite uses 5 identcals, the E11 4 identicals. Because they use so many, but not too many that it is hard to find matching stacks, it is relatively easy to hit their damage cap of 1063 and their SAC cap of 73. So basically, offering double capped carbines isnt that hard. The hardest part is simply finding the 4 or 5 identical. Tough, but by no means rare or impossible.
Double capping an FWG or a DL44 on the other hand is actually a bit tougher from what I have been told. In many cases it requires +180 tissues/shards/enhancers in order to double cap these. I dont claim to be an expert, but as a carbineer and a pistoleer, I talk to my WS's a lot about these two weapons. Both of them have said the same thing : Carbines require a greater number, but less powerful enhancers to cap.
I think in the end it balances out, but that is why you are likely to see a lot of SAC capped carbines out there. Also there is the fact that carbineers are pretty damn serious about low SAC carbines. Most will trade a little max damage in order to get SAC under 80 or less. Carbs fire fairly fast, although not as fast as pistols, and an SAC of 80 can kill us pretty quickly.
Let me explain. The two most popularly crafted carbines are the E11 and the Elite. For all intents and purposes, these are nearly identical carbines. Same speed, damage, and SAC caps. The only real difference is that the E11 takes one LESS tissue/enhancer to make, and it has slightly higher wound percentage.
For the most part on my server, any competent 12 pt WS can cap damage and SAC with any set of tissues/enhancers over +160. The Elite uses 5 identcals, the E11 4 identicals. Because they use so many, but not too many that it is hard to find matching stacks, it is relatively easy to hit their damage cap of 1063 and their SAC cap of 73. So basically, offering double capped carbines isnt that hard. The hardest part is simply finding the 4 or 5 identical. Tough, but by no means rare or impossible.
Double capping an FWG or a DL44 on the other hand is actually a bit tougher from what I have been told. In many cases it requires +180 tissues/shards/enhancers in order to double cap these. I dont claim to be an expert, but as a carbineer and a pistoleer, I talk to my WS's a lot about these two weapons. Both of them have said the same thing : Carbines require a greater number, but less powerful enhancers to cap.
I think in the end it balances out, but that is why you are likely to see a lot of SAC capped carbines out there. Also there is the fact that carbineers are pretty damn serious about low SAC carbines. Most will trade a little max damage in order to get SAC under 80 or less. Carbs fire fairly fast, although not as fast as pistols, and an SAC of 80 can kill us pretty quickly.
Cookie-Eater
Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:56 pm
#5
ChefVomit wrote:
Well to be honest, because of the crafting process it is actually a tad EASIER to cap out SAC and damage on a carbine than it is a pistol.
Let me explain. The two most popularly crafted carbines are the E11 and the Elite. For all intents and purposes, these are nearly identical carbines. Same speed, damage, and SAC caps. The only real difference is that the E11 takes one LESS tissue/enhancer to make, and it has slightly higher wound percentage.
For the most part on my server, any competent 12 pt WS can cap damage and SAC with any set of tissues/enhancers over +160. The Elite uses 5 identcals, the E11 4 identicals. Because they use so many, but not too many that it is hard to find matching stacks, it is relatively easy to hit their damage cap of 1063 and their SAC cap of 73. So basically, offering double capped carbines isnt that hard. The hardest part is simply finding the 4 or 5 identical. Tough, but by no means rare or impossible.
Double capping an FWG or a DL44 on the other hand is actually a bit tougher from what I have been told. In many cases it requires +180 tissues/shards/enhancers in order to double cap these. I dont claim to be an expert, but as a carbineer and a pistoleer, I talk to my WS's a lot about these two weapons. Both of them have said the same thing : Carbines require a greater number, but less powerful enhancers to cap.
I think in the end it balances out, but that is why you are likely to see a lot of SAC capped carbines out there. Also there is the fact that carbineers are pretty damn serious about low SAC carbines. Most will trade a little max damage in order to get SAC under 80 or less. Carbs fire fairly fast, although not as fast as pistols, and an SAC of 80 can kill us pretty quickly.
I still think that Pistol should have more power than Carbines then, and Carbines should be inclined more toward speed than dmg.
At the end nothing is blancaed nor makes sense.
ChefVomit
Wed Sep 07, 2005 4:23 pm
#6
Well just because one weapon is slightly easier to cap doesnt meant the weapon should be changed. More likely the crafting percentages/requirements need to be tweaked slightly.
And as for Pistols needing to do more damage...to be honest...they do. Overall my pistols are a lot more damaging than my carbines, ESPECIALLY in PvP where Kinetic is king. The FWG5 can not be matched by anything that a carbineer can carry. Hell, the FWG5 cant be matched by any rifle either. The only reason that Carbineers appear to do more damage is Improved Legshot. If you really map the damage over time, I will do more damage with my FWG5 pistol than I will my carbines when using the same specials.
The FWG5 is faster and more powerful than any other kinetic carbine by a fair margin. It's power is tempered by range. Pistoleers get the ability to root, carbineers get AoE and a gret power attack.
Do I think that Pistoleer could use a little love? Sure. I think that Stopping shot should be modified the way that Badger has been lobbying for it to be changed, and I think that they should have dual wield ability that carries with it a decrease in speed or some other modifier to prevent it from being too overpowered. I trust Badger in this regard, as it is a tough game to play. He has to figure out how to ask for enough to make us all happy, without making it so much that the other ranged professions will cry foul and get the whole deal nerfed.
Pistols can and often will do more damage than carbines when the same specials are used. They are faster and in some cases more powerful weapons. Their ONE weakness is range, and that is where knowing your template and knowing how to pick and choose your battlefield becomes an artform. I have never lost to a rifleman in a duel yet, not even while just using pistols. Range and max damage ratings are not everything
And as for Pistols needing to do more damage...to be honest...they do. Overall my pistols are a lot more damaging than my carbines, ESPECIALLY in PvP where Kinetic is king. The FWG5 can not be matched by anything that a carbineer can carry. Hell, the FWG5 cant be matched by any rifle either. The only reason that Carbineers appear to do more damage is Improved Legshot. If you really map the damage over time, I will do more damage with my FWG5 pistol than I will my carbines when using the same specials.
The FWG5 is faster and more powerful than any other kinetic carbine by a fair margin. It's power is tempered by range. Pistoleers get the ability to root, carbineers get AoE and a gret power attack.
Do I think that Pistoleer could use a little love? Sure. I think that Stopping shot should be modified the way that Badger has been lobbying for it to be changed, and I think that they should have dual wield ability that carries with it a decrease in speed or some other modifier to prevent it from being too overpowered. I trust Badger in this regard, as it is a tough game to play. He has to figure out how to ask for enough to make us all happy, without making it so much that the other ranged professions will cry foul and get the whole deal nerfed.
Pistols can and often will do more damage than carbines when the same specials are used. They are faster and in some cases more powerful weapons. Their ONE weakness is range, and that is where knowing your template and knowing how to pick and choose your battlefield becomes an artform. I have never lost to a rifleman in a duel yet, not even while just using pistols. Range and max damage ratings are not everything
BadgerSmaker
Wed Sep 07, 2005 10:45 pm
#7
ChefVomit wrote:
Well to be honest, because of the crafting process it is actually a tad EASIER to cap out SAC and damage on a carbine than it is a pistol.
Let me explain. The two most popularly crafted carbines are the E11 and the Elite. For all intents and purposes, these are nearly identical carbines. Same speed, damage, and SAC caps. The only real difference is that the E11 takes one LESS tissue/enhancer to make, and it has slightly higher wound percentage.
For the most part on my server, any competent 12 pt WS can cap damage and SAC with any set of tissues/enhancers over +160. The Elite uses 5 identcals, the E11 4 identicals. Because they use so many, but not too many that it is hard to find matching stacks, it is relatively easy to hit their damage cap of 1063 and their SAC cap of 73. So basically, offering double capped carbines isnt that hard. The hardest part is simply finding the 4 or 5 identical. Tough, but by no means rare or impossible.
Double capping an FWG or a DL44 on the other hand is actually a bit tougher from what I have been told. In many cases it requires +180 tissues/shards/enhancers in order to double cap these. I dont claim to be an expert, but as a carbineer and a pistoleer, I talk to my WS's a lot about these two weapons. Both of them have said the same thing : Carbines require a greater number, but less powerful enhancers to cap.
I think in the end it balances out, but that is why you are likely to see a lot of SAC capped carbines out there. Also there is the fact that carbineers are pretty damn serious about low SAC carbines. Most will trade a little max damage in order to get SAC under 80 or less. Carbs fire fairly fast, although not as fast as pistols, and an SAC of 80 can kill us pretty quickly.
What about the fact that you can use stocks in Rifles and Carbs but not Pistols during crafting. They shave off about 20 SAC.
ChefVomit
Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:55 pm
#8
BadgerSmaker wrote:
ChefVomit wrote:
Well to be honest, because of the crafting process it is actually a tad EASIER to cap out SAC and damage on a carbine than it is a pistol........
What about the fact that you can use stocks in Rifles and Carbs but not Pistols during crafting. They shave off about 20 SAC.
Well there you go! 
I said that I really dont know too much about it other than what I had heard from my WS's in passing, and you posted some more info on that subject. I didnt know that about the stocks. I just knew it was easier to craft a capped carbine thana capped pistol, and this info helps explain why a little more. To me, this demostrates that the crafting process itself is a little screwy. Then again, I am kind of torn on this whole issue because I dont WANT it to be so easy to cap out weapon stats. It should be a challenge.
BadgerSmaker
Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:20 am
#9
Stecoli wrote:
reenforced stock
Yup, Reinforced Stock, with around -27 % SAC cost and -7 Accuracy every day, all the time.
Tango88
Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:31 am
#10
Thks for your replies... was actually thinking of the dmg PUP as i think it will push the min to like 400+ and the max to 1k cos the sac is almost capped. Will i burn thru my action bar fast if i spam adv crit and torso shots?
Stecoli
Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:48 am
#11
If your planning on fighting jedi, you will defo need a SAC pup, I aim around 45-50 SAC, with a Damage Capped FWG5.
Against a jedi due to their defenses its really hard to dent them, and yes you will burn thru your action fast, even with Blob candy , booster blue and doc buffs i find my action running down in long jedi fights.
BadgerSmaker
Thu Sep 08, 2005 12:06 pm
#12
ChefVomit wrote:
Well there you go!
I said that I really dont know too much about it other than what I had heard from my WS's in passing, and you posted some more info on that subject. I didnt know that about the stocks. I just knew it was easier to craft a capped carbine thana capped pistol, and this info helps explain why a little more. To me, this demostrates that the crafting process itself is a little screwy. Then again, I am kind of torn on this whole issue because I dont WANT it to be so easy to cap out weapon stats. It should be a challenge.
It's quite an interesting situation, how do you balance the crafting of Pistols, Carbines and Rifles? Carbs and Rifles benefit from Stocks and are easy to cap, Pistols dont so it is nigh on impossible to craft a "usable" DE-10.
Do you make pistols easier to craft or carbs/rifles harder or both?
I'm waiting for the new WS corro to get signed up before I take that focus thread on making more pistols useful any further at it looks like I'll be needing input from them.
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