Pistoleer Archive
Thread: High Prices on loot and why DPS not being balanced is causing it
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Newap
Sat Aug 14, 2004 11:11 pm
#1
Whats wrong with balancing the damage per second on all the professions. I have heared so many people say that this would be bad. In reality its what is causing our inflated economy. We have a select few classes namely rifleman/swordsman and jedi camping all the good loot spots. Pistoleers and most other professions stand no chance of getting anything in these highly camped place, all it takes is one swordsman or rifleman to come along and hit your aggro one time and you have lost the ability to loot. I mean seriously did soe not think that they made it impossible for some classes to loot anything. If they evened the DPS every class would have equal chance to loot. If they did this loot would bebased on who does the most damage to the creature untill its dead not who one shots it a single time and steals the kill from everyone else. What we have now is people with professional looting templates cornering the market on all loot. You cant get the loot on your own because they are camping the good loot places thus preventing you from aquiring some pice you need then your forced to buy it from the greedy sob for some rediculously high price. SOe seriously screwed the loot system by having rifleman and swordsman speed cap faster than a pistoleer who has crappy 300max damage weapons with no AP. Carbineers fencers pikeman were all in the same boat forced to by all our crap off a few professional looters for rediculous prices good job soe stop nerfing the merchants and break up the real monoplies.
eyonone
Sun Aug 15, 2004 1:18 am
#2
actually with master pistoleer and last ditch and bh pistols if u dont have any sea's u can take almost any kill you want if u have the right gun... i got the acklay from more than a few rifleman but never any goddam loots.
swordsmen TKM's you name it ive outdamaged them
swordsmen TKM's you name it ive outdamaged them
WerrtZer
Sun Aug 15, 2004 4:31 am
#3
eyonone wrote:
actually with master pistoleer and last ditch and bh pistols if u dont have any sea's u can take almost any kill you want if u have the right gun... i got the acklay from more than a few rifleman but never any goddam loots.
swordsmen TKM's you name it ive outdamaged them
Your point being?
That's a whole helluva lot of skill points for a template like that. Not much left over for medic (another must since they fixed NPC specials).
Compare it to the points a master Swords or Rifleman needs: no contest. Also the rifle/sword does not have to be "uber". Any off the shelf dmg sliced T21 or powerhammer will outdamage all but the highest krayt tissue powered DE10 and all other (except looted exceptional) pistols.
Our lack of anything other than AP1 is a joke. Sure we have some nice def mods, and we gotdodgebut one state effect from an NPC and those are shot to hell.
Here's a scenario: Nightsisters are the loot campers choice of late (high end tapes/AAs, dot weapons, components). Master pistoleer has his kinetic striker pistol. Now as a master WS I've managed to make my own personal one wth spider fangs and a smg slice. After pow-up it's 120-270 2.1. NO ARMOUR PIERCING.
The Sword guy comes in with his standard PH with dmg slice 180-600 5.4 AP2 (costing significantly less than my striker). Due to speed modifiers he out dmgs me in seconds meaning that unless he dies before the NPC is half dead, that he will ,for certain, get to loot the corpse.
The rifle guy comes in. He has no (easily obtainable) kinetic weapon, but he does have his portable turret with him. His standard T21 with dmg slice and max min pow-up while costing more than the swordsmans' PH still costs less than my striker. It's AP3 so the NS resists to energy are redundant. He can stay well back from her melee range while being consistently accurate and can outdmg both me and the swordsman. Sure his defences suck and mind costs can be a factor but 90% of the time he's going to be walking away with the loot.
Tell me what's right about that? That's only one NPC. We have stuff like Acklay, Krayts FS npcs: the list goes on. Pistoleers get SFA. I for one am sick and tired of it. PvP is even worse (I gave that up a long time ago). In fact my account expires in 12 days and as sorry as I am to leave the game, I'm not sorry to leave behind the frustrations of wanting to play a pistoleer since lauch only to see it consistently brken and under powered.
PS: that must be some pistol. Double sliced?
Koth_Ablon
Sun Aug 15, 2004 10:59 am
#4
just run mokk and janta missions instead of camping for loot then try to buy anything you want. Or make your self master doc/ master pistols hunt jedi and then charge them 2 mil for a rez. If you cant get the loot, buy it.
Newap
Sun Aug 15, 2004 1:33 pm
#6
Money grinding is as bad as hologrinding in my openion sure i can mindlessly go run 1500 mokk or janta missions over and over till im packing triple digits in my bank account. Id rather loot the items to make my weapons and get my own skill tapes. Sadly im shut out from this by our low dps and lack of armor peircing weapons higher than ap1. With feign death and novice commando bh pistols 4 i can kill anything in the game given enough time. Sadly even if i kill somthing if anyone else is around i stand no chance of getting loot rights even if i had been killing it for the past 10 minutes. I like killing higher level creatures and trying to get loot its a major portion of the games content that we are being shut out from by a horribly designed looting system. It's also the reason why our economy is inflated loot simply put is the most valuable stuff in the game nothing else reaches into the millions of credit range. And despite what anyone wants to belive the few people who build professional looting templates are causing it they have cornered the market on loot. WHy should i not have just as good a chance at looting a nightsister elder or krayt dragon as anyone else. Ontop of this SOE has added the ultimate loot monger now. Jedi can kill anything in the game faster than anyone else i havent seen a single creature with light saber resist yet so now get ready to be paying jedi 10's of millions of credits for some piece of loot you need rather than trying to get it yourself.
Randonb
Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:10 pm
#7
Loot rights are a hairy problem. SWG has perhaps an overly simple way of handling it, but the developers at Fan Fest said they would be open to looking at other options in the future. Right now, there is too much on the plate. The fact remains some professions will always deal more damage than others, but yes, the disparity is quite dramatic right now and it has led to some problems with Pistoleers getting in-demand loot.
If you were to redesign the loot system in a "kill steal" situation (competing players who are not in a group), how would you do it?
biwan:
Koth_Ablon
Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:17 pm
#8
give us a Pistols only dungeon. The entrance is to small to bring anything besides a pistol in. All the mobs a resistant to kenetic. Give us some half decent loot or/and some high end pistoleer mobs. Maybe have a quest inside that grants parts to one of the new pistols?
Datchery
Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:24 pm
#9
Well RandonB that's a tough one mostly because if you pick a system where you have to do a % of the damage to get loot rights (majority damage) nothing will change. First hit or last hit gives rise to people running in to kill something, which would satisfy even fewer people.
The only real solution is to make Pistoleers not suck 
-Datchery
Newap
Sun Aug 15, 2004 3:55 pm
#10
It would be much simpler for them to just give the loot rights to the player or group who did the most damage over the life of the creature. Ie you start attacking a creature and get it down to half health, at this point as long as you keep attacking the said creature you would get rights no matterwhat because inorder somone to steal it from you they would have to do 50% dmage to it. This prevents some people from walking up to somthing youve been fighting and taking your kill with one shot. The other solution is to put in instanced dungeons for all the higher level npc's dont remove the static spawns just add some instanced minor quests from npc's so we can go kill a nightsister,krayt every day if we want to. And give these mission quests the same chance for dropping loot items as the static spawns. Alot of the problem is also the fact that all the high level static spawns are over crowded.
Newap
Sun Aug 15, 2004 4:01 pm
#11
Per haps the easiest way to do it would be for the server to take into account all the people who did damage to the said npc and then randomly pick and notify a player when he gets loot rights that makes every template even no matter what. Everyone would have equal chance to loot.
BloodMonk
Mon Aug 16, 2004 12:05 am
#12
Imo solo group missions are causing this insane inflation....people who don't do anything but play don't care for grinding cash a few hours a day.....
Solo missions are the best paying activty BY FAR and imo that's plain wrong
Sly
MetallicaJunkie
Mon Aug 16, 2004 4:47 am
#13
I've played as EVERY combat profession in the game and I have to step in here to say a few things.
A master swordsman never speed caps without tapes, his speed is as low as ours and his weapons are slower, his delay mods are comparable to our own.
The loot system works by who deals the most damage, it is not possible to one shot kill steal. I don't believe the loot prices are increasing because of "unbalanced" dps or "professional loot templates" I think it's simply because the latest loots are so sought after by a very select group, like the DE-10 and Geo, which are the only weapons a pistoleer can use to compete now, high demand therefore high price... We're not the only ones screwed on loot, pikeman's ultimate loot, NS Energy Lance is held by a mob that is 100% resistant to both kinetic and electric damage, so they are expected to pay 10mil+ to get the schematic and components...
Making DPS equal across all professions simply doesn't make sense, it would destroy the entire combat system on the player side, allow me to explain. No matter what profession you choose, you would deal the exact same damage as the next, so why did you choose your profession? If all combat professions were balanced in the way you're asking, the only differences between us all would be graphic rather than technical, I for one do not want that.
I'll agree that it's frustrating as a pistoleer that we can't deal damage to a lot of the high end mobs and that all of the new content added over the last few months has been pretty much locked to us, but equalling dps across the board is NOT the answer. Each profession needs it's own role in combat, and NOBODY should be able to solo any mob that has ANYTHING valuable in its loot table, not even a jedi. In the books rancors took out entire squads and it takes a whole platoon and an ATST Squadron to bring down a Krayt Dragon, why should one man be able to take these things down and multiples at that?
I posted here once stating that as a pistoleer it took me half an hour to drop the resists on an Elder so that my pikeman friend who was tanking it could damage it with an LVA, I was not impressed at the amount of time it took with speed capped stoppingshot just to drop resists and outraged that the pikeman outdamaged me with just a 1.5% damage window compared to my 76.5% damage window based on one level of armour piercing and melee damage modifiers... The response to my post was a long list of people saying "two people should not be able to take down an elder anyway" and words to that effect, I'm surprised that you did not get the same...
Let's talk real life terms, you have a .44 magnum, "the most powerful handgun in the world, that will blow your head clean off", but it ain't doing **edit** when it hits armour.A carbine such as the Colt M4 or AK47 will get through light armour and a rifle such as the Barrette .50 caliber sniper rifle can bury armour piercing rounds in the hulls of tanks. That's simply because of the shape and structure of the rounds, similar things would apply to energy weapons in the SWU. A Republic blaster has a small power cell that can only deliver so much energy per shot, whereas an E-web or T21 would have a much larger power cell and deliver a much more powerful shot capable of penetrating enemy armour.
Completely ripping away all offensive advantages from the combat professions is not a viable fix for pistoleers, we need to be given some kind of advantage that will allow us to compete, I posted such a fix that would be much more reasonable but it got buried by these pointless petitions for dual wield, holsters and twirly moves which sadly, are partly responsible for us not getting fixed as they are seen by the devs as the most popular requests from our community. I'll bump my original post for a new combat system that will increase our dps without penalising the other professions, I suggest you all read it and perhaps make some suggestions, you never know, we might be able to get it added to the combat revamp.
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