Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Attachment help, confused.
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BeWary
Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:12 pm
#2
Yup, it's to account for the fact that we are s'posed to be mobile fighters, so we wouldn't ever really see the accy benefits from /kneel or /prone.
We get:
PAWS: Pistol accy while standing
PAWM: Pistol accy while moving
PA: pistol accy
and they all work. Now weather a few points in PAWM is better than a pile of plain old accy is something for the hardcoree number crunchers to play with.
Uthyr
Thu Jan 27, 2005 5:52 pm
#3
BeWary wrote:
Yup, it's to account for the fact that we are s'posed to be mobile fighters, so we wouldn't ever really see the accy benefits from /kneel or /prone.
Hmm, I had never really thought about it from that perspective. Is that really the case, that there is no point at allin changing posture to fire pistols? Is there any increase in accuracy by going prone or kneeling (say, for a Master Pistoleer/BH)? I'd be interested in seeing the numbers if anybody knows them.
RenKesson
Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:09 pm
#4
I do believe that there is no difference for us between Standing and Kneeling, but there is still a +15 bonus over Standing for us in Prone.
If you target a critter while standing, you may see +X as your range modifier. If you kneel, you will see +(X+15). Kneeling gives you a +15 bonus to accuracy. If you go prone, you will see +(X+30). Prone gives you +30 accuracy over Standing.
The Master Pistoleer gets Pistol Accuracy While Standing +15, which negates the difference between Standing and Kneeling for us, meaning we fire while standing with equal accuracy as if we were kneeling. However, we still get the +30 when prone (although when prone and kneeling, we obviously lose the +15 PAWS, since we're not standing -- duh!) So there's no point for us to kneel, except I think that kneeling targets are harder to hit with other ranged weapons (we get a defense bonus while kneeling).
Regarding Pistol Accuracy While Moving, if you target a critter while standing still, you may see Y as your range modifier. But if you push the Num Lock key (start moving) you see that your range modifier changes to +(Y-30). -30 is the penalty ranged professions suffer while firing on the move (either walking or running, oddly enough).
The Master Pistoleer, however, gets a +30 Pistol Accuracy While Moving (PAWM), which negates the accuracy penalty for other ranged professions. So yes, we are already designed to be the most mobile ranged profession in the game.
Master Carbineers gain +30 Carbine Accuracy While Moving, but have no Carbine Accuracy While Moving bonuses, so they don't suffer from the -30 penalty for moving while shooting, but they do suffer just from standing. So they're best while Kneeling, but not by a whole lot.
Master Riflemen gain Rifle Accuracy While Moving +10, and again no bonus to Accuracy While Standing. They're designed to be far less mobile than either Carbineers or Pistoleers, but they deal out heavier damage than both. And their really low weapon accuracies at Point Blank Range is supposed to make an ideal area for Pistoleers to get within their fire range and deal death to them if we can get close enough.
A big problem, however, lies in the fact that while Pistoleers gain all these nice Acc While Moving and Acc While Standing bonuses, we get a Pistol Accuracy of +95 at the Master level, while both Carbineers get +130, and Riflemen get +160. These extremely high Accuracy mods in Carbineer and Rifleman seem to make up for the penalties from standing and moving (-45 if both moving and standing) by themselves.
Compare Pistol Accuracy +95 with a modified Rifleman Accuracy While Moving and Standing of +160 -15 (for standing) - 30 (for moving) + 10 (Acc while Moving). This brings a Rifleman's Accuracy While Moving to +125. A Carbineer's net accuracy while moving looks like:
+130 - 15 (for standing) - 30 (for moving) + 30 (Acc While Moving) = +115
A Master Pistoleer's net Accuracy While Moving? +95.
A Master Carbineer's net Acc While Moving? +115.
A Master Rifleman's net Acc While Moving? +125.
Pistoleer's are weaker in damage, weaker in speed, and weaker in accuracy, even with our supposedly superior standing and moving bonuses.
Yet another reason our profession is broke. :/
Uthyr
Thu Jan 27, 2005 8:59 pm
#5
Thanks, Ren, that was a fantastic summary! It looks like the only posture (from an accuracy perspective) that benefits us is prone. I hate being in that posture though, because I can't use my stimpacks when prone. So I almost never go prone--I'd rather just take the hits and heal them.
Kneeling from a defensive perspective though acutually occurred to me while I was fighting Tuskens a few minutes ago. I felt very vulnerable just standing there while they were all pounding me from all different directions (me being unbuffed), and then it occurred to me that they would probably miss me a lot more if I was kneeling. I have no idea how much it helped, but I killed several dozen of them and was never in any real danger of dying. Who needs buffs? I think you can do just fine without them as a Pistoleer, as long as you know your limitations.
A man's got to know his limitations. 
BadgerSmaker
Fri Jan 28, 2005 2:43 am
#6
I always thought your ranged defense increased when kneeling and further increased when prone, at the expense of melee defense.
I always try to use the posture change special moves and quite like to get in a dive shot when tanking high level ranged mobs, it just looks cool.
Cant heal when prone though, but dive shot followed by a few specials while soaking up damage then a kip up followed by a heal is one of the very great things about being a pistoleer.
Very stylish. 
PercyBlackdragon
Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:06 am
#8
I think the PAWS modifier as stated cancels the kneeling modifier so we can go straight into moving without any delay from being kneeling, making us truly mobile. (I know theres a shot that gets you up, but this is all just me guessing)
BadgerSmaker
Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:20 am
#9
I see it as Pistol Accuracy while standing is just that, if you add SEA's with "PAWS" on it, you are more accurate while standing and it stacks with Pistol Accuracy and Ranged Accuracy, whether you are moving or not.
If you kneel or go prone you lose that accuracy bonus, but you gain the accuracy bonus that kneeling and prone gives.
I could, as always, be horribly misguided and wrong. 
PercyBlackdragon
Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:22 am
#10
BadgerSmaker wrote:
I could, as always, be horribly misguided and wrong.
Well, aren't we all in some form or another
RenKesson
Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:22 am
#11
PercyBlackdragon wrote:
I think the PAWS modifier as stated cancels the kneeling modifier so we can go straight into moving without any delay from being kneeling, making us truly mobile. (I know theres a shot that gets you up, but this is all just me guessing)
Yeah, we shooting while moving as well as when we're kneeling. And we get a defense bonus against enemy attacks when we're moving.
So today, in Rehn's Tips for the Pistoleer, the key lesson is KITE!KITE! KITE!
Never let the defense-stacking melee-temploiter con you into standing there while he shoves his stun baton all around your unmentionables. KITE! KITE! KITE! And when you've done that, use Suppression Fire, and then KITE! some more!
And the bonus less today is: /KickUpShot not only allows you to change from Kneeling to Standing while firing at the same time, it also allows you to move from Kneeling to Standing while you're Dizzy. Changing Posture this way will not result in you falling over 'cause you're so d-mn-d dizzy!
EDIT: And for a little extra Clickie Exp, look here for my full thoughts on kiting.
Message Edited by RenKesson on 01-28-2005 07:25 AM
RenKesson
Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:23 am
#12
PercyBlackdragon wrote:
BadgerSmaker wrote:
I could, as always, be horribly misguided and wrong.
Well, aren't we all in some form or another
I was only wrong the one time!
PercyBlackdragon
Fri Jan 28, 2005 8:25 am
#13
RenKesson wrote:
PercyBlackdragon wrote:
BadgerSmaker wrote:
I could, as always, be horribly misguided and wrong.
Well, aren't we all in some form or another
I was only wrong the one time!
Yea but it was a doozy
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