Pistoleer Archive

/agree;

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Nifty wrote:

The majority of our skill mods come in the form of general skills. I feel this is a bad thing; a MP/MR gets far better skills for using a rifle than they do a pistol, because of the general skill mods. Using a rifle gains 45 more accuracy, 20 more speed, and only loses 20 defense.

Getting the marksman weapon branch and ranged support branches to unlock an elite profession gives 40 acc, 20 spd, and 20 def with the specific weapon and general numbers of 30 acc, 5 spd, 10 melee, and 25 ranged. So as we're grinding to our novices, we are all on equal footing numbers. In our professions however, we no longer are equal in terms of specific vs general numbers, nor in terms of overall mods. Master pistoleer adds 55 pistol specific mods (0 acc, 25 spd, 30 def.)MCarbadds 75 specific (25 acc, 30 spd, 20 def.)MR adds 100 specific (45 acc, 45 spd, 10 def.)

In terms of general mods, all three add 75 accuracy through master. Speed wise, we get 20, while the others get 15 (the others make up for that in specifics.) General melee we add 70, carbs 50 and rifles 25. General ranged we add 60, carbs add 50, rifles add 75. Overall in the general mods, we add225 general points, carbines add 190, and rifles add 190.

Overall, we add 55 + 225 = 280 points. Carbs add 75 + 190 = 265 points. Rifles add 100 + 190 = 290 points.

I disagree with this distribution. All 3 profs should have the same number of general and specific mod points to be distributed.

I also disagree with the way our general skills are given out in terms of dabbling. Getting just the accuracy discipline for pistols is 55 general acc, while it's 50 for carbs, and 45 for rifles. Speed wise, we give out 10 general in the speed discipline, while the others only give their general bonus in the master box. Defense wise, we cough up 45 and 40 in the general defense discipline (we also give Stopping Shot in that discipline!) while Carbs gives out 30/30 and suppression fire, and rifles gives out 5/55 and cover up/conceal shots.

My point is, from a number standpoint, it makes more sense to master rifles or carbs, and dabble in pistols. It makes very little sense for us to dabble in rifles.

You know what the scariest number is? Who's more accurate with a pistol? MP/rifles 4/0/0/0 or MR/Pistols 0/4/0/0. The master rifleman by 10 points. Sure they won't be as fast with the pistol, but they're still more accurate. In my opinion, that is just not right.

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I sure hope you're trying out for correspondant

My point is, from a number standpoint, it makes more sense to master rifles or carbs, and dabble in pistols. It makes very little sense for us to dabble in rifles.

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Nifty wrote:

My point is, from a number standpoint, it makes more sense to master rifles or carbs, and dabble in pistols. It makes very little sense for us to dabble in rifles.

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eapers wrote:
I sure hope you're trying out for correspondant

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I'm not. I think BadgerSmaker is a better candidate. He listens well though, so anything I or anyone else brings up, he'll take to the devs.

Whoever the new corr turns out to be, I'll help out in any way I can with testing or just looking at stuff and saying "the devs borked this one!"

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CaixCatab wrote:
My point is, from a number standpoint, it makes more sense to master rifles or carbs, and dabble in pistols. It makes very little sense for us to dabble in rifles.

But taking the theoretical viability/usefulness of the specials we'd gain into account...? Numbers wise, sure, but with the free specials sharing (and in some cases, armour certs) that hascome in with the CU as opposed to *just* sharing some defense numbers,we will benefit fully from any special or misc abilitiylocated in that branch.

Why ignore those when looking for something to dabble in?

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Uthyr wrote:

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Nifty wrote:

My point is, from a number standpoint, it makes more sense to master rifles or carbs, and dabble in pistols. It makes very little sense for us to dabble in rifles.

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I didn't even consider a comparison of pure stats in my discussion of Rifleman vs. Pistoleer in the other thread that I just posted to, but yeah, you're right. About the only stat where master pistoleer has an advantage over master rifleman is in melee defense (there's a huge difference there), but it's probably more than compensated by the better stats that riflemen have in the other areas (especially accuracy).

One other consideration in the dabbling argument is that I have found many situations as a Master Pistroleer where I have needed to switch to a rifle for the added range (it was the only weapon I used in my Phase 4 battles at the Village the other day--it would have been pointless to use a pistol there), temporarily losing all my pistol-specific skill mods in the process, but I can't imagine any situation where a Master Rifleman would find it helpful to pick up a pistol. A good rifle should be in every pistoleer's inventory. Only rifles need to be in a rifleman's inventory. I'm not sure what my point is here--just an interesting observation.

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my first reaction was the same

and uthyr brought an interesting point (sort of)
if they have no use for a pistol... well, then they won't even miss the significant loss of accuracy (which is the whole reason for this post)
but you're right in that a pistoleer switching to a rifle doesn't lose AS MUCH.....

accuracy still means something depending on how far away from your target you are
pistols have insane accuracy bonus at close range, and rifles have HORRIBLE accuracy

try rooting a rifleman sometime and run up to him and just blast away at him, you'll notice a huge difference in how many attacks you land and how many your opponent lands

so if a rifleman wants to shoot something pointblank they can switch to a pistol and lose a LOT more accuracy or keep the rifle and lose a lot of accuracy anyway
while a pistoleer switching to a rifle doesn't lose as much

i think the question is really who can use the other better?
a rifleman using a pistol?
or
a pistoleer using a rifle?

Message Edited by Kevie on 05-20-2005 08:08 PM