Pistoleer Archive
Thread: The reasoning behind the Bleed Unstacking, and the plan
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Randonb
Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:12 pm
#1
I made a post on the Correspondent Forum today regarding the unstacking of bleeds and dots. With this publish, a player will only be able to apply 1 type of DoT per target. That means one health bleed, one action bleed, etc. How does that translate to our profession? No more stacking Health Shot 1 & 2.
The official reasoning is that too many players were applying bleeds, then running outside of the target's range until it almost bled to death. This led to players soloing what they shouldn't be able to. The good news is that the current plan on TC is to allow a single target to have as many (for example) Health Shot 2's as you want, so long as they come from different players. A group of 5 pistoleers can put 5 of the same bleed on 1 target, and they will all stack. This is dangerous business, so it might change if the developers decide it is overpowered.
Another part of the plan is to decrease the amount of damage done from bleeds (passive damage), and increase the amount of damage done from attacks (active damage). The overall damage output should be about the same, it just makes it harder to solo big game using mostly bleed-and-run-away tactics. The change has something to do with commando flame dots adding up to substanial damage, but it isn't the whole story. Even our bleeds were out of hand when these tactics were being applied, according to the development team. Because of this, I have no reason to expect we will recieve a Health Shot 3. Apparently all of this was common knowledge to the other professions, but not to us because we didn't have a correspondent at the time it was explained.
I am still trying to find out information on this problem:
If:
-The bleeds all have the same damage multiplier
-It is based on the weapon that you are holding
-Pistols havethe lowest min/max damage numbers
-The bleeds all "tick" at the same speed, negating a pistol's supposed advantage
Then:
-Pistol/Fencer bleeds deal the least damage over time.
I haven't recieved a response on this yet. If we do, I'll let you all know right away.
Message Edited by Randonb on 02-06-2004 06:12 PM
biwan:
Cakins7005
Fri Feb 06, 2004 5:24 pm
#2
Lol, how much are they going to nerf damage from the bleed? Are they going to make it so everyone will want to play Combat Medic because poisons will still stack?
Freylocke
Sat Feb 07, 2004 5:48 am
#4
Yeah the stupid developers are nerfing pistoleer yet again. I cant wait for ultima x, war hammer etc. hey developers just make teras kasi and rifleman and chefs be able to just kill pistoleers at will( oh i forgot they can all ready **edit** was i thinking) it suks being forced to collect 2 million credit krayt pistols to give yourself the illusion that you can do some damage in pvp.
Soltan Triad master doc master gimpoleer
Klay
Sat Feb 07, 2004 10:56 am
#6
So who will some of the ones to get it the worst from this? I have a feeling it is going to be pistoleer right (though from what I understand one of the melee professions had up to 4 different bleeds they could stack!?!)? Our damage does the least anyways. Yes as a novice smuggler with dirty fighting I, I could solo ravenous tortons, apply my 2 bleeds, feign then go read the forums till my bleeds wore off. With out low damage it takes a long time to bleed something with that big of a HAM to death anyways. Yes commandos do get some insane DOTs, I was talking to a PA member and they said they do a 500 bleed in PvP...isn't that with a 75% damage reduction? No wonder they could bleed something huge to death...my bleeds as a pistoleer NOW stack to 500 in PvE give or take.
I can understand why they would not want bleeds to stack but if they are going to do this can you bring up the fact that our HS2 and HS1 show little difference? I'll admit that I don't keep track of every bleed and that HS2 can go higher but when I am watching it seems that they end up causing two very similar bleeds (at least a good percentage of the time). If this was due to design since you get the skills so close together, Pistol IV and Novice Pistoleer, then it's almost redundant to have them as two seperate skills without the stack.
I can understand why they would not want bleeds to stack but if they are going to do this can you bring up the fact that our HS2 and HS1 show little difference? I'll admit that I don't keep track of every bleed and that HS2 can go higher but when I am watching it seems that they end up causing two very similar bleeds (at least a good percentage of the time). If this was due to design since you get the skills so close together, Pistol IV and Novice Pistoleer, then it's almost redundant to have them as two seperate skills without the stack.
BeWary
Sat Feb 07, 2004 12:07 pm
#7
so now, when we have to group to lay on multiple bleeds, our shortcommings grow exponentially in comparison to any other ranged combat class. It's not good enough that 1 on 1 we blow, we needed to be out gunned 6 on 6 also.
I understand the reasoning, I just don't think this is a well thought out response to the problem. Shorten the duration of bleeds if you want to stop folks from bleeding down critters they shouldn't. Make folks re-apply more often. Make it more dangerous, not just longer, to use this teq.
I understand the reasoning, I just don't think this is a well thought out response to the problem. Shorten the duration of bleeds if you want to stop folks from bleeding down critters they shouldn't. Make folks re-apply more often. Make it more dangerous, not just longer, to use this teq.
Doobeous
Sat Feb 07, 2004 2:49 pm
#8
Cakins7005 wrote:Lol, how much are they going to nerf damage from the bleed? Are they going to make it so everyone will want to play Combat Medic because poisons will still stack?
No, Eti, I dont believe combat medic DOT's will stack either. Its an equal opportunity nerf
KaernLegorah
Sat Feb 07, 2004 3:02 pm
#9
I hate to use a Dev sounding comment, but you guys are thinking too much about how professions ARE instead of how the WILL be. Yes, unstacking bleeds will hurt us given how combat currently is, but the ENTIRE combat system is getting revamped from the ground up. Hell, they claim that spamming attacks will be a thing of that past! Can you possibly imagine combat without spamming an attack even just a couple times? No, you can't because we're all used to just hitting FanShot, StoppingShot, LastDitch, BodyShot, etc over and over again.
If the Devs pull off the revamp the way they claim they're going to (and the way I pray daily that they will) then unstacking bleeds will become a trivial matter. If they don't pull off the revamp and the game flops, then that's a whole other story. Again, I hate to sound like a Dev by saying it, but saying this is a Pistoleer nerf is thinking about NOW Pistoleers instead of the Pistoleers to come.
But, feel free to flame me for defending the Devs. 
rufus102
Sat Feb 07, 2004 10:02 pm
#10
No flame. You have a point.
Basically - nothing is worth commenting about until they reveal how the new combat works.
KaernLegorah
Sat Feb 07, 2004 10:47 pm
#11
rufus102 wrote:
Basically - nothing is worth commenting about until they reveal how the new combat works.
I know, and it's really hard to resist the temptation too! haha 
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