Pistoleer Archive
Thread: TH, Holo, ANYBODY! Will you please finally make Pistoleer Viable?
Increased rate of fire and increased accuracy both while standing and on the move are some of the perks of this profession's disciplines. In addition, because of the close combat work involved, the Pistoleer enjoys bonuses to melee defense and an increased chance to dodge an attack. Eventually, the increased speed and accuracy a Pistoleer gains allow accurate attacks on multiple enemies at once.
Placing a shot accurately is fine, but if the area aimed at was not vital, the result could be the same as a miss. The Pistoleer knows where toshoot to drop a target quickly and effectively - if somewhat noisily and messily.
While easily reached, this profession is difficult to master. Some move on to other interests, others get distracted by the fame and fortune made available without mastering everything to do with a pistol. Only fools laugh at the Master Pistoleer.
- Jeff Sanders"
I am stealing the above from another poster to help make my point, i will be anaylizing and using this to back up what i have to say and perhaps give the devs a guide on the line of thinking they need to have to get us where we should be.
Here is a list of problems i see that have kept pistoleers from being competitive with other professions throughout the game since release and no its not a pick on rifleman thread, with that said i will begin.
1. Woefully inaccurate in comparison to other professions at our ideal range ( exemption
Ikeman) Other professions are more accurate at our ideal range than we are. This is a major concern to me, accuracy has every bit as much effect on our DPS as speed does.
2. Too many random ham specials, most of which are little better than marksman pistol specials ( most marksman pistol specials outdamage most pistoleer specials even at the master level)
Placing a shot accurately is fine, but if the area aimed at was not vital, the result could be the same as a miss. The Pistoleer knows where toshoot to drop a target quickly and effectively - if somewhat noisily and messily.
As stated in number 2. above we do not reflect this at ALL. Being the softest hitting ranged profession a good way to make up for this would be to allow us to target our enemies weakest point. Again Accuracy at IdealRange is also a HUGE concern here.
3. Speed is another major concern, a rifle at 7.0 speed wielded by a master rifleman can hit the speed cap of 1.0 secs with the majority of rifleman specials while a pistol above 1.5 speed cannot reach this with the majority of pistoleer specials. Can you honestly say this is intended or fair? Again i will quote.
Increased rate of fire and increased accuracy both while standing and on the move are some of the perks of this profession's disciplines. In addition, because of the close combat work involved, the Pistoleer enjoys bonuses to melee defense and an increased chance to dodge an attack. Eventually, the increased speed and accuracy a Pistoleer gains allow accurate attacks on multiple enemies at once.
4. We dont need out specials fixed we need all new specials that will make our profession unique while not stepping on the toes of others.
A few suggestions i have are
1. Point Blank Head shot, this special targets the mind and can only be fired at 0-10m
2.Point Blank Groin shot, this special targets the action bar and can only be fired at 0-10m
3. Point Blank Gut shot, this special targets the health bar and can only be fired at 0-10m.
4.Pistol Melee Defense 2, a Knockdown with a "chance" to dizzy or stun your opponent. ( getting hit upside the head with a blunt object can be quite tramatic). Range should be 0-10m same range all melees are capable of, if we must fight within their range then our equivalent moves should have similar capability. Currently pistol melee defense1 and 2 have a max range of 7m. A TKM can Dizzy/KD you at 10m.
5.Stopping shot, currently this is an underused and overrated special that served no real purpose not does it reflect its name and description. This shot should be similar to the carbineer scatter shot.
6. Fanshot should fire multiple shots into one target. No more AOE. We have another special that is supposed to do this. Random ham attack but each time it will fire all damage it does to one pool specifically at random, no more spread out damage between 3 pools every shot.
7. Multi-Target Pistol Shot. Think strafe 2 here, less damage more speed.
8. Double-tap, this special fires two shot off at two separate ham pools simultaneosly. Think old stopping shot damage here but damage divided equally between two ham pools.
9. Disarming shot 1 & 2 delays enemies next action by 5 and 10 secs respectively, does not stack with the delay created by a KD, simply put this specials temporarily prevents the enemy from firing for a few secs, nothing else.
I am sure many more range specific specials could be thought up by the devs. Every profession needs this differentiation between them. RIfles = Long range = their best attacks not usable at close range 40-64m, Pistols = close range = our best specials only usable at close range 0-20m, carbineer = medium range= their best specials only usable when at 20-40m. Notice there is a slight overlap here between the 3 ranged professions regarding when specials can be used, simply put all 3 ranged professions would have specials useful outside of their ideal ranges which would be one thing they would share in common. The same can be applied to melee professions, a crowd control melee, a high damage melee, a light damage melee, a tank melee. Create uniqueness and class differentiation and you will solve most of the balance woes we face today.
Another suggestion is to allow all ham pools targetable by every profession but in their own unique way, for instance a Rifleman could headshot you at 40-64m but cannot use the same special at 16m. At this range he would be like a fish out of water. Here the pistoleer takes over using a similar shot but one that can only be fired at the pistoleers ideal range. This would apply to every profession. This would give every profession their own specialization where they are good and promote more thought regarding tactics than merely buffing up and spamming your best special. being concious of where one stands tactically is the first step in thinking about strategy. Something this game sorely lacks.
No more generic bland tasteless professions and give us some spice and flavor. Thats all everybody really wants, a fair shake, a situation should exist for every profession where they excel.
I've been a pistoleer for a very long time folks, master since August 2003, been playing since July of 2003. I love my profession but it needs ALOT of work. I'm a pistoleer because of my love for them in the EU as well as a master smuggler because of that same love but thats another nut to crack in a different forum.
Devs we cant be expected to wait another 4 to 6 months to finally be allowed to have the fun other professions currently are having. I beleive the amount of time I as well as others in this community have waited has been more than reasonable and you really shouldnt be telling us to wait longer. Quite frankly its gotten old and we really are going to have a hard time justifying keeping going that much longer, we've already been waiting on long standing promises. WHat reason would we think youd keep your word now?
Signed, a reasonable request of a PISTOLEER! Over 9 Months! Enough is enough!
Message Edited by Keito_Temreh on 04-06-2004 01:33 AM
pistoleer is pretty good. It costs 92 skillpoints and gives terrific defense. It has two professions which compliment it very nicely too (smuggler, bh)
I am not trying to poo-poo on your thread, I just think if rifleman were nerfed (as well as ranged fighters inferiority to melee fighters, but that's a whole nother ball of wax) then all of us gun-toters would me much happier.
nlite2000 wrote:
pistoleer is pretty good. It costs 92 skillpoints and gives terrific defense. It has two professions which compliment it very nicely too (smuggler, bh)
I am not trying to poo-poo on your thread, I just think if rifleman were nerfed (as well as ranged fighters inferiority to melee fighters, but that's a whole nother ball of wax) then all of us gun-toters would me much happier.
As far as smuggler goes we merely gain 3 specials and an ability we didnt previously have, Low blow, panic shot, last ditch, feign death. Panic shot was recently nerfed and feign death has no use whatsoever in PVP. So for all that extra expenditure we get low blow a ranged KD and last ditch another random HAM attack that really was only better than fanshot if you KD your opponent and kept them there longer with panic shot which now cannot be done. I now prefer fanshot in most situations unless i need to stun someone. Still with smuggler added i am no equal to a master rifleman in any way shape or form.
BH/pistoleer, yeah nice try, ya i suppose its totally fair to have to master 3 1/4 professions to approach the power a mere master rifleman possesses. Quite frankly i have said it before and always will say it, the scatter pistol is not a pistol its a flechette weapon, basically a hand held shot gun. Doesnt fire like a pistol or have any similar characteristics as a pistol. Quite frankly BH pistol mods should be labeled as BH pistol speed and BH pistol Accuracy and shouldnt work with pistoleer specials nor should a pistoleer using any weapon but a scatter be able to use BH pistol specials. The mods shouldnt stack. See i agree, rifleman have no such profession to stack with why should we?
Oh and as far as my 92 sps i am not even remotely on even ground with a master rifleman nor is a carbineer remotely on even footing with a master rifleman.
I dueled a master carbineer a couple weeks ago and the duel lasted 25 mins! The only reason it finally ended is because he used muon instead of brandy and my fanshot hit his mind one too many times towards the end when he hit his muon downer! Equal armor, equal buffs, one LONG duel. I bet there isnt a rifleman around that can say ANY profession can hang that long with them in a duel.
Ya those defenses do me alot of good when the TKM dizzy/KDs me or the rifleman cuts through my utterly non existant ranged defense like butter with his 160 raw accuracy, rifleman are more accurate at all ranges than a MASTER pistoleer. There is NEVER a situation we can excel as things stand now. Well not exactly i do great against unbuffed, unarmored opponents, past that i have gotten to the point i dont even bother.
Btw on Bloodfin i am a Master RIfleman/Combat medic, ya know the OVERPOWERED FOTM! Yet i call it overpowered because it is! I dont want an I win button i want a fair shake. I made this character so i could have fun while waiting for my pistoleer.smuggler to be viable. I mastered CM in one day and rifleman in 5 days. Took me a month to master pistoleer back in the day.
I also play a master BH on eclipse and i can honestly say against a simple master pistoleer, id own him. Every shot and special i have is superior to anything a pistoleer has, and dont cry about fire KD never working, i personally use sprayshot/suppression fire combo and it works like a charm almost every time. But thats not my only trick. Pistoleers basically come to the fight unarmed and to quote our famous motto " Pistoleer- Over 60,000 fps served daily"
Message Edited by Keito_Temreh on 04-06-2004 02:45 AM