Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Something you may already know...
But a wake up call to everyone.
Pistoleers, carbineers, and riflemen are supposed to be masters at their respective profession right? The why do BH's think they should be uber in EVERYTHING combat orientated?
This is how it should be:
On a scale of 0-5, 5 being the best you can be at that weapon:
Pistol:
Pistoleer=5
BH=3
Carbineer=0
Rifleman=0
---------------------
Carbine:
Carbineer=5
BH=3
Pistoleer=0
Rifleman=0
----------------------
Rifle (or LLC since they are somewhat the same):
Rifleman=5
BH=3
Carbineer=0
Pistoleer=0
------------------------
My point is, if you add all those numbers up, BH's have the most BUT not at any particuler weapon. There is absolutely no way a BH should be as good as a Pistoleer at pistols. Some of the BH's make it sound like they want to be the only ones good at PvP which is totally ridiculous.
Im a pistoleer, and i agree with you, but
I think BHs should have maybe close to 3.3 or 3.4?
You make a good point where the problem comes in is no one is mastering their profession everyone is dabbling in someone elses and wearing the tag, so someone gets killed by a certain class and they think it's another. This is something I have been thinking of that would solve everyones problem, Lets say you have the 250 skill points. But you add another 50 points per weapon type based on class, so pistoleers will get 50 pistol skill points to use, BH's would get 35 pistol skill points to use. When you trian a new pistol skill it costs x amount of pistol skillpoints, that way people who are pistoleers will only have 50 and people who have BH will only have 35 and make it where you can't get pistol skills in another professions tree you have to pick one to use the points in. That way you can dabble in different weapons just not stacking skills in the same one, Example pistoleers could train No
ERR the last message screwed up.
You make a good point where the problem comes in is no one is mastering their profession everyone is dabbling in someone elses and wearing the tag, so someone gets killed by a certain class and they think it's another. This is something I have been thinking of that would solve everyones problem, Lets say you have the 250 skill points. But you add another 50 points per weapon type based on class, so pistoleers will get 50 pistol skill points to use, BH's would get 35 pistol skill points to use. When you trian a new pistol skill it costs x amount of pistol skillpoints, that way people who are pistoleers will only have 50 and people who have BH will only have 35 and make it where you can't get pistol skills in another professions tree you have to pick one to use the points in. That way you can dabble in different weapons just not stacking skills in the same one, Example pistoleers could train Novice BH but they can't train any of the BH or Smuggler pistol skills they can still get BH Carbine or LLC as long as they don't have that skill somewhere else. Just my .02 cents onthe issue, I feel we as BH's should be more self sufficient against MOBS etc..., and our knockdowns and Carbine HAM costs should be fixed. I agree with you, but here is the catch a based on your scale:
Pistol - Pistoleer -5
BH - 3.5
Here is the clincher to this working the 5 is for master pistoleer and the 3.5 is for all four boxes in BH, if they are not master pistoleer then they should be less than 3.5 to give incentive to master the profession.
I agree fully on the fact that a BH using a only pistol should getkilled by a master pistoleer say 4 out of 5. You guys train hard for the title, and the difference of skill should be pretty knowledgeable.
However, our other skills that should make us above or beyond a master pistoleer, namely the carbine shots etc, do us more harm then you ( HAM wise ) , almost never stick, and if they stick its usually too short.
The LLC has insane accuracy problems, and the specials are very short range, which every good PvP player will avoid at all costs unless they're a commando or melee profession.
But, I hope you do agree that pistoleer is meant to be supplemental profession, given the fact that it costs 93 skill points compared to the 217 skillpoints that it takes to get to MBH. this leaves the pistoleer with a lot of flexibility skill point wise, the BH with very little.
Agreed, we get the flexibility in our BH weapon diversity, but as things stand now ( nerfed KD, ranges not working as intended, pistol should be short range, carbines medium, etc, eyeshot moved to master ) there is little return in the skill lines for the investment. This ofcourse also includes the investigation line which is insane to get xp in.
Add in people who only take the Bounty Pistol line for the accuracy and speed, and you get a very skewed perspective of the bounty hunter profession as a whole.
And yes, I'm a BH so flame away...
Southern Fried
DarthSadeth wrote:
When you call pistoleer a "supplemental" profession, you are making the same remark towards carbineers and riflemen. All three professions cost the same skill points and have the same xp requirements in their trees.Thus you are in a sense arguing that only BH's and Commandos are the true combat professions. I am sorry, but the skill point arguement is a joke.I read a thread that put it like this - If you buy a BMW(BH) which costs more than a Dodge(Pistoleer), don't you expect the BMW to be better? Well...no. You are paying for a title, nothing more. Those points are spent so that you can look cool with some catchy BH title, it does not entitle a BH to be better than every other class.
its stuff like the bmw analogy that cause such bad blood between bounty hunters and other classes. its just plain riduculous to even suggest that all the extra skill points used by bh should be to " look cool" and have a "catchy title". bh should be awesome killing machines because of the variety of weapons and skills they have at their disposal. i agree with the original post that a masterpistoleer should be marginally better then a bounty hunter using only a pistol ( except instead of 5 vs 3 i would suggest 5 vs 4.5) , same goes for carbineers. a smart bounty hunter using all his skills and weapons should always beat a smart pistoleer (no other combat related skills) for the simple reason that the bounty hunter has sunk most of his learning ability into combat whereas pistoleers/ carbineers/riflemen haven't. the skill points that we have alow us to get other combat abilities ( dirty fighting, teras kasi or anything else we want to make a template equally good as a bounty hunter).
p.s i am a master gunfighter/ dirty fighting 4 , so i have no bounty hunter agenda.
DarthSadeth wrote:
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"I read a thread that put it like this - If you buy a BMW(BH) which costs more than a Dodge(Pistoleer), don't you expect the BMW to be better? Well...no. You are paying for a title, nothing more."
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No offence my brotha, but I am assuming you or the original poster never drove or riden in a BMW. Try doing 110MPH down I-95 in a Dodge 'whatever'. Then get behind the wheel of an M5. No comparison.
But since you want to use automobiles as your analogy of choice. Try this.
Bounty Hunter = NASCAR (stock car)
Pistoleer = DRAG RACER (funny car)
Even though both cars are built for speed, it is two differentlevels of speed. Both can reach speeds in excess of 200mph. However the speedway(i.e. combat branch) would make a difference as to whom the winner would be.
Side by side in a 1/4 mile race the pistoleer would own the BH. As he should. He was built for that sole purpose with 92 skill points of power applied to this specific type of race. Even though the BH would haul ass he only has 34 skill points under the hood devoted to this kind of race. 1/3 of what the pistoleer has devoted.
Now lets put them on a 5 mile oval. 1 lap. Where the BH can use all his 217 skill points to the fullest. The pure pistoleermight lead for 4 seconds but will not finish. The BH has invested in handling, enduranceand much bigger gas tank, besides the speed aspect. He wins.
biwan:
fletcherreed wrote:But a wake up call to everyone.
Pistoleers, carbineers, and riflemen are supposed to be masters at their respective profession right? The why do BH's think they should be uber in EVERYTHING combat orientated?
This is how it should be:
On a scale of 0-5, 5 being the best you can be at that weapon:
Pistol:
Pistoleer=5
BH=3
Carbineer=0
Rifleman=0
---------------------
Carbine:
Carbineer=5
BH=3
Pistoleer=0
Rifleman=0
----------------------
Rifle (or LLC since they are somewhat the same):
Rifleman=5
BH=3
Carbineer=0
Pistoleer=0
------------------------
My point is, if you add all those numbers up, BH's have the most BUT not at any particuler weapon. There is absolutely no way a BH should be as good as a Pistoleer at pistols. Some of the BH's make it sound like they want to be the only ones good at PvP which is totally ridiculous.
This is where your logic fails : NO BH mod is stacking with Rifleman ones, LLC is NOT a Rifle (I admit to be consistent it should). Rifleman is the ONLY Rifle user with best mods (and after patch, it will be way better) and no BH can compete with them while using a Rifle. Actually, no one can compete a Rifleman with a Rifle.
Another point is that Pistoleers ARE SUPPOSED to be better with a Pistol than BH...but DX2 is a joke, 75% of our specials are broken (none of the BH Pistol Line is...) and they get better speed than us (well, they stack...true in both sides). When we get fixed (one day, just hope to play long enought to see it happen) we'll be better than them with Pistols...
Problem is...do we need to get them nerfed to be better ? Of course not, we just need us to get fixed. This is what we are asking for, for ages...
DarthSadeth wrote:
When you call pistoleer a "supplemental" profession, you are making the same remark towards carbineers and riflemen. All three professions cost the same skill points and have the same xp requirements in their trees.Thus you are in a sense arguing that only BH's and Commandos are the true combat professions. I am sorry, but the skill point arguement is a joke.
If you read my post you will not see me write anything like that. Basically, what it boils down to( or, better put, what it should mean in my humble opinion ) is this :
- pistoleers, master of the pistol, awesome opponents of the short range. should have major difficulties in attacking an opponent from long range
- carbineers, master of the carbines, awesome opponents medium range, medium effective when engaged from either long range or up close
- rifleman, masters of rifles, awesome opponents at long range, easy to kill up close and personal
- commandos, masters of heavy weapons, bane of heavy vehicles and bases no other class can touch
- Bounty hunters, masters of diversity and versatility, able to switch to any range to counter whatever weapon his opponent is using.
As you see, pistoleers/carbineers/rifleman specialise in a certain range area, thus leaving them more room to pursue other careers, even careers that supplement their professions weaknesses. ( rifleman teras kasi would be a career path that would spring to my mind, for instance )
As the combat system is now, ranges are a joke, pistoleers can shoot a an apple from someones head while running in a snowstorm from 65 meters ( exaggerating here, ofcourse, and I know I will get flamed for this anology
This should be the area of the rifleman, in my opinion.
As you see, my point being is that a bh sacrifices profession flexability for combat flexability, but as things stand now the actual combat flexibility gainedis not worth the points and time invested.
Ofcourse, there are always people who disagree, but they are mostly people who are thinking that because they are master of any given weapon, they should be able to use it 100% effectively at any range.
If you take this points in mind, not the skill point system is a joke, but the combat/range system as a whole.
I am a bounty hunter in a pistoleer forums, so whip out your flamethowers...