Pistoleer Archive
Thread: high end mobs and the Pistoleer ??
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Ryche
Wed Jun 23, 2004 5:06 pm
#1
can it be done? I am wanting to do master smuggler/tkm/pistoleer but tkms can't fight elders/krayts/etc. is pistoleer enough to take them out or do i need to junk tkm for swordsmen???
muppin
Wed Jun 23, 2004 5:15 pm
#2
as a pistol fan and a guy on his way to master pistol i wound love to hear this answered as my game is mostly pve
BZebub
Wed Jun 23, 2004 5:16 pm
#3
high end MOBs + pistoleer = dead pistoleer
or
high end MOBs + group with pistoleer = pistoleer gets flamed and ejected from group for being ineffective
Its the fact that we don't have any real AP. AP Energy 1 and AP Acid 1 have limited use. When we get a 50-75% reduction for AP and another 50-90% reduction for resists, well...
Pistoleer probably wasn't meant to take on high level MOBs, though. It seems after the revamp, Pistoleers will be PVPcentric - fast, mobile, effective, maybe a useful disarmingshot...and that DOES fit with the "gunslinger" and "duel of honor" wild west themes.
OckVofad
Wed Jun 23, 2004 7:15 pm
#4
Due to the future combat balance its going to very hard to decide what combat prof to Master over the next few months. You may decide to drop TKA and pistoleer only to find that swordsman gets gimped in the combat balance.
At this point, it is probably best to just either hold off on spending anymore skill points if you want the FOTM combat prof or just Master something that you like.
My guess is that after the combat balance no one will be able to solo the high level mobs except force ranked jedi.
Randonb
Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:25 pm
#5
Our lack of armor piercing is a disadvantage, but could be made bearableif we had more damage types, orsomething else to contribute to a group. That's going to be a key point in testing the combat balance - we want to be sure to contribute something. The goal is that everyone has a niche, that a group might say "Boy, we've got an X, Y, and Z.. if only we had a Pistoleer with us. That would work really well." Visualize that day, because we're going to push damn hard to make sure it happens. It should be that way for all combat professions.
Have you really been kicked from groups BZebub? That's just wrong.. I thought that kind of elitist attitude was isolated to older games like EQ. You can have 20 people in your group for crying out loud. There's no excuse.
biwan:
BZebub
Wed Jun 23, 2004 8:38 pm
#6
Randon, I can't help but think that Pistoleer and Fencer will be PVP oriented after the combat balance. That is how they generally are by style, yes? And with the added mobility and defense (and AP1 is all we'll need)...that's how it seems.
Swordsmen and Riflemen will probably be the kings of PVE, with AP3 weapons.
This is just speculation, but could you keep an eye out for this? I'm mostly into PVE, and I'd hate to see Pistoleer go to the PVP side, but I would completely understand.
When you think of pistols and fencing, you think of one-on-one combat with other people, and rifles are used for game hunting...
Randonb
Wed Jun 23, 2004 9:29 pm
#7
I'll be keeping an eye out for all 4: Solo PvP, Group PvE, Solo PvP, and Group PvP.
But yes, I'll be keeping a special eye that we don't become focused on PvP, as I agree that is a direction we could easily slip into.. Back when Riflemen were broken (in the other direction), they were actually told by Q-3PO that they had to stay generally weak because targeting the Mind pool was a PvP advantage.
Well.. that was a long time ago and I would say it wasrescinded in Publish 4.
If it makes you feel any better, we aren't the only profession that is almost identical to how it was at launch. I have a lot of hope for us in the Combat Balance. The developersare fully awarethey have hyped it upto mean so much, if even one profession gets left out, it will cost thousands of accounts practically overnight. I'm not even trying to make a threat, it's just reality. I know it, you know it, they know it. That's part of why it gets delayed - it has to be done right.
Back on the original topic, it makes my stomach churn to think that the developers would think it's okay to make seperate categories of PvP & PvE professions, even for a second. I don't think they plan on doing so again, but I'll be watching..
Kevie
Wed Jun 23, 2004 11:16 pm
#8
must.... be..... cool again........ *head explodes*
i would settle for more damage types than rifleman *shakesfist* and some more defenses/mobility/speed than other classes to make up for our lower dps
i see pistoleers not so much of a tanker, but moreso the bait that runs in, gets one mobs attention, and runs out to the rest of the group to ambush it, or just to run distraction to draw fire away from the less-defensive ones in the group when a tanker is down or unavailable
Kevie
Thu Jun 24, 2004 1:56 pm
#10
Kevie wrote:
and some more defenses/mobility/speed than other classes to make up for our lower dps
i know all about AP..... but against high-lvl mobs, we are not supposed to be the damage dealers
JinookPhi
Thu Jun 24, 2004 3:16 pm
#11
I find it interesting to hear so much about Pistoleer and PvP. From a storyline standpoint it makes sense, but I have not held up well in PvP. Our shots are too slow and our damage too little. In another post I spoke of charging in with Fan Shot using a Genosian and mass poisoning everybody. Then I get killed, but the sacrifice is usually worth it as my peers then come in and finish off a lot of sick and dying enemies.
In PvE I do much better, but high level mobs ALWAYS require my fencing mastery. It is nice to start off with a distance bleed and some poison, but close up... relying on pistol would mean certain death. I recently solo'd a swarm of someenraged Rancors... about five at once. I ran around spaming Fan with my auto bleed Republic, then did the same with my Genosian for poison. If a pistol was all I had, I would be so far burried in Dath dirt that Luke himself could find me with the help of a training Bark Mite! But the shots did set up pool bleeds that helped when I got close in. After they were all dead, took a little TK nap to heal everything up. So, the pistol made for a very nice companion weapon, but not very good as a primary weapon.
The sad part of the balance is that I am sure, lost accounts or not, there will be even more changes and balances. I think first and foremost the devs need to PERMANENTLY decide what type of personality and combat style each profession (combat ones) will have, so we at least have some good info to make choices from. And to insure that even with changes, the personality of our combat profession choices dont change. Just my ten cents. I am a Master Pistoleer, Master Fencer, Teras Kasi Mystic, Smuggler (Feign Death only), and Medic.
Koth_Ablon
Thu Jun 24, 2004 7:45 pm
#12
For me it really depends on what im fighting, if it has AP3 or AP2 without any vunerabilities, then i dont bother. Other then that i can usually take anything with combined DoTs and using the terrain for kiting. Rancors are easy enough with a good acid pistol and fan shot in groups.
Rarrot
Fri Jun 25, 2004 12:41 am
#13
More damage types means nothing without ap.
PvP, good armour resists almost everything. PvE, all the high end mobs have resistance to everything, so there is no such thing as a good damage type to have. Unless we get a "lightsaber-type" pistol, but I can't see that happening.
High level mobs usually have heavy armour and resists ranging from 40-90% on every damage type. That means we can hit with energy or acid and have our damage cut to 1/4 (and then hit the resist), or have it cut to 1/8 (not including the resist) and hit with heat, stun, or kinetic. Unless they're going to ensure every mob has at least one vulnerability so we can use the appropriate damage type, we do no damage.
As an example, take a mob with heavy armour, 60% energy resist, and 40% heat resist. Heat may look better, but the lack of ap means that a republic blaster's going to do 10% damage and a FWG5's only going to do 7.5%. Either we need better ap or something that lets us bypass armour completely, or we'll never be any good in high-end pve. (Don't forget, not only are pistols crippled by this, but the listed damage on our weapons is barely 1/2 to 1/3 of that of most professions, too. We'd have to shoot 10 times faster than a rifleman for any kind of balance to exist in dps, and they're not going to get that much of a speed nerf. Besides; the speed differential would have to change depending on what we were shooting at, so that's never going to be a solution.)
PvP, good armour resists almost everything. PvE, all the high end mobs have resistance to everything, so there is no such thing as a good damage type to have. Unless we get a "lightsaber-type" pistol, but I can't see that happening.
High level mobs usually have heavy armour and resists ranging from 40-90% on every damage type. That means we can hit with energy or acid and have our damage cut to 1/4 (and then hit the resist), or have it cut to 1/8 (not including the resist) and hit with heat, stun, or kinetic. Unless they're going to ensure every mob has at least one vulnerability so we can use the appropriate damage type, we do no damage.
As an example, take a mob with heavy armour, 60% energy resist, and 40% heat resist. Heat may look better, but the lack of ap means that a republic blaster's going to do 10% damage and a FWG5's only going to do 7.5%. Either we need better ap or something that lets us bypass armour completely, or we'll never be any good in high-end pve. (Don't forget, not only are pistols crippled by this, but the listed damage on our weapons is barely 1/2 to 1/3 of that of most professions, too. We'd have to shoot 10 times faster than a rifleman for any kind of balance to exist in dps, and they're not going to get that much of a speed nerf. Besides; the speed differential would have to change depending on what we were shooting at, so that's never going to be a solution.)
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