Pistoleer Archive

Thread: Combat Changes TC2:Bria Chance to Hit & Weapon Change Delay

Ewach
Sun Jun 27, 2004 5:07 pm
#1


Some interesting changes coming down the road. For those that haven't read it yet, check out the thread below:


Subject: Core Combat Change



I logged onto TC2:Bria today to see for myself how it played out.There's two different combat changes illustrated in the following log. The first (as discussed in the thread above) affects the probability to hit. The second (of which I've seen no official DEV announcement on, just what I've read about those that noticed it) is the time delay introduced when switching weapons.


In both examples below, I was at point blank range, standing and stationary the entire time. Each was against Durnis, about the easiest creature to be found on Corellia.


Novice Pistoleer (0/0/0/0)

My Skill Mods
-- Pistol Accuracy +55
-- Pistol Speed +30


All shots were normal - no specials used.


Durni Combat #1


Using a Scout Blaster (Dmg 67-138 / Spd 1.8 at PB range (+17 @ 0m)
Number next to Durni name +12


[Combat] 18:26:15 You shoot at a durni but miss.
[Combat] 18:26:16 You shoot at a durni but miss.
[Combat] 18:26:17 a durni tries to hit you, but you evade!
[Combat] 18:26:18 You shoot at a durni and hit for 166 points of damage.
[Combat] 18:26:19 You shoot at a durni but miss.
[Combat] 18:26:19 a durni hits you for 43 points of damage!
[Combat] 18:26:20 You shoot at a durni but miss.
[Combat] 18:26:21 a durni misses you!
[Combat] 18:26:22 You shoot at a durni and hit for 162 points of damage.
[Combat] 18:26:23 You receive 88 points of Pistol Weapons experience.
[Combat] 18:26:23 You receive 8 points of Combat experience.
[Combat] 18:26:23 You shoot at a durni and hit for 157 points of damage.


Out of 7 shots, there were 3 hits and 4 misses.


Durni Combat #2


Start out with D18 Pistol (Dmg 10-42 / Spd 3.0 at PB range (+0 @ 0m)
Number next to Durni name -4


[Combat] 18:32:40 You shoot at a durni and hit for 16 points of damage.
[Combat] 18:32:40 a durni misses you!
[Combat] 18:32:43 You shoot at a durni but miss.
[Combat] 18:32:43 a durni hits you for 39 points of damage!
[Combat] 18:32:45 You shoot at a durni but miss.
[Combat] 18:32:45 a durni tries to hit you, but you evade!
[Combat] 18:32:46 a durni misses you!
[Combat] 18:32:47 You shoot at a durni and hit for 55 points of damage.
[Combat] 18:32:49 a durni tries to hit you, but you evade!
[Combat] 18:32:49 You shoot at a durni and hit him, but he blocks it!
[Combat] 18:32:51 a durni hits you for 45 points of damage!
[Combat] 18:32:51 You shoot at a durni but miss.
[Combat] 18:32:52 a durni hits you for 50 points of damage!
[Combat] 18:32:52 You have been wounded for 1 points.
[Combat] 18:32:52 You have taken 1 in battle fatigue.
[Combat] 18:32:52 You have been wounded for 1 points.
[Combat] 18:32:52 You have taken 1 in battle fatigue.
[Combat] 18:32:52 You have been wounded for 1 points.
[Combat] 18:32:52 You have taken 1 in battle fatigue.
[Combat] 18:32:55 a durni hits you for 48 points of damage!


Note: There are 5 second between shots (32:51 to 32:56). That's when I shifted from D18 (F8) and Scout Blaster (F9). All I did was press F9 to switch weapons.


[Combat] 18:32:56 You shoot at a durni and hit for 201 points of damage.
[Combat] 18:32:57 a durni hits you for 42 points of damage!
[Combat] 18:32:57 You shoot at a durni and hit for 194 points of damage.
[Combat] 18:32:57 You receive 88 points of Pistol Weapons experience.
[Combat] 18:32:58 You receive 8 points of Combat experience.


Out of 8 shots, there were 4 hits, 3 misses and 1 block.



SWG Lexicon: "Every Player" Means "Except Crafters"



Ewach - Founder of Travelers Respite on Sunrunner
Located halfway between Anchorhead and Mos Eisley (2180, -4684)
Visit my Shop at (2030, -4660)
Ewach
Sun Jun 27, 2004 5:10 pm
#2

Just one more example (without the detailed log). I used the D18 through an entire fight with another Durni.

My Stats Against Durni


Total Shots: 27

12 misses
13 hits
2 dodges


Durni's Stats Against Me


Total Attacks: 26
11 misses
14 hits
1 evade


Total Duration of the fight: 18:52:40 to 18:53:35


Yes - 55 seconds, nearly a full minute, for a Novice Pistoleer to kill a single Durni. (Granted, I wasn't using any specials and a low end gun, but when less than 50% of your shots land any damage, it takes awhile.)




SWG Lexicon: "Every Player" Means "Except Crafters"



Ewach - Founder of Travelers Respite on Sunrunner
Located halfway between Anchorhead and Mos Eisley (2180, -4684)
Visit my Shop at (2030, -4660)
KruxTrancid
Sun Jun 27, 2004 5:14 pm
#3

I was under the impression that if you had the weapon equipped for 5 secs or longer than the weapon change was instant, but looking at your combat log that doesn't appear so. Does the delay always take place now?



K'rux Trancid
Master Gunslinger
Wanderhome

Randonb
Sun Jun 27, 2004 5:29 pm
#4

I know.. it's bad. Your results are consistent with my own tests, which were much more thorough. I've (politely) made it clear that I am furious with development for pushing a core combat change onto TC Bria and then immediately "locking down" the publish. It appears that no more changes will be allowed. My requests to have the accuracy changes temporarilypulled have noteven been responded to.


Frankly, I am at a loss as to how a new player is expected to climb the skill tree. I don't want to cause a panic, but I don't want to pull the wool over anybody's eyes, either.





"...You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." biwan:
Former Pistoleer Correspondent (02/04/04 - 09/05/04)
Ewach
Sun Jun 27, 2004 5:29 pm
#5




KruxTrancid wrote:

I was under the impression that if you had the weapon equipped for 5 secs or longer than the weapon change was instant, but looking at your combat log that doesn't appear so. Does the delay always take place now?




Well, I had to find something a little bigger in order to test multiple weapon changes. I used a Crazed Durni (about 3 times the HAM of a sane Durni! :smileyhappy


Here's the results:


Started out with D18 equipped


19:21:11 You shoot at a crazed durni and hit for 45 points of damage.
19:21:13 You shoot at a crazed durni but miss.
19:21:13 a crazed durni hits you for 76 points of damage!
19:21:15 You shoot at a crazed durni but miss.
19:21:15 a crazed durni hits you for 106 points of damage!
19:21:17 a crazed durni misses you!
19:21:17 You shoot at a crazed durni and hit for 38 points of damage.
19:21:19 a crazed durni hits you for 95 points of damage!
19:21:19 You shoot at a crazed durni and hit for 51 points of damage.
19:21:21 a crazed durni hits you for 65 points of damage!
19:21:22 You shoot at a crazed durni and hit for 39 points of damage.
19:21:23 a crazed durni misses you!
19:21:24 You shoot at a crazed durni and hit for 31 points of damage.
19:21:25 a crazed durni tries to hit you, but you evade!
19:21:26 You shoot at a crazed durni and hit for 19 points of damage.
19:21:27 a crazed durni hits you for 121 points of damage!
19:21:29 a crazed durni hits you for 123 points of damage!


Shifted to Scout Blaster (5 seconds between shots). Had been in combat for 15+ seconds at time of shift.


19:21:31 You shoot at a crazed durni and hit him, but he blocks it!
19:21:31 a crazed durni hits you for 90 points of damage!
19:21:32 You shoot at a crazed durni and hit for 110 points of damage.
19:21:33 a crazed durni misses you!
19:21:33 You shoot at a crazed durni and hit for 136 points of damage.
19:21:35 You shoot at a crazed durni and hit for 162 points of damage.
19:21:35 a crazed durni hits you for 65 points of damage!
19:21:36 You shoot at a crazed durni but miss.
19:21:37 You shoot at a crazed durni and hit for 177 points of damage.
19:21:37 a crazed durni hits you for 113 points of damage!
19:21:40 a crazed durni misses you!


Shifted back to D18 (5 seconds beween shots - 37 to 42). Scout Blaster had been equipped longer than 5 seconds.


19:21:42 You shoot at a crazed durni and hit for 47 points of damage.
19:21:42 a crazed durni tries to hit you, but you evade!
19:21:44 You shoot at a crazed durni and hit for 19 points of damage.
19:21:44 a crazed durni misses you!
19:21:46 a crazed durni hits you for 89 points of damage!
19:21:46 You shoot at a crazed durni and hit for 18 points of damage.
19:21:48 a crazed durni misses you!
19:21:48 You shoot at a crazed durni but miss.
19:21:50 a crazed durni misses you!
19:21:50 You shoot at a crazed durni and hit for 58 points of damage.
19:21:52 a crazed durni misses you!
19:21:52 You shoot at a crazed durni and hit for 45 points of damage.
19:21:54 a crazed durni tries to hit you, but you evade!
19:21:54 You shoot at a crazed durni and hit him, but he blocks it!
19:21:56 a crazed durni misses you!
19:21:58 a crazed durni misses you!


Shifted back to Scout Blaster (another 5 second delay)


19:21:59 You shoot at a crazed durni and hit for 178 points of damage.
19:22:00 a crazed durni hits you for 74 points of damage!
19:22:01 You shoot at a crazed durni and hit for 174 points of damage.
19:22:02 You shoot at a crazed durni but miss.
19:22:02 a crazed durni hits you for 66 points of damage!
19:22:03 You shoot at a crazed durni but miss.
19:22:04 a crazed durni hits you for 124 points of damage!
19:22:04 You shoot at a crazed durni and hit for 164 points of damage.
19:22:05 You receive 288 points of Pistol Weapons experience.
19:22:05 You receive 28 points of Combat experience.





SWG Lexicon: "Every Player" Means "Except Crafters"



Ewach - Founder of Travelers Respite on Sunrunner
Located halfway between Anchorhead and Mos Eisley (2180, -4684)
Visit my Shop at (2030, -4660)
Koth_Ablon
Sun Jun 27, 2004 7:26 pm
#6

Am i misunderstanding this, the 5 second delay affects EVERYONE? Even master pistoleers who supposedly have mastered the art of quick draw (the stances tree). Does that make any sense?



Ane Sake --Gunslinger--
-|Dark|-





"Give the guy a gun and he's Superman, give him two and he's God."
- Hard Boiled

KruxTrancid
Sun Jun 27, 2004 9:01 pm
#7

Yes, it does affect everyone. No, it doesn't make any sense.



K'rux Trancid
Master Gunslinger
Wanderhome

ROBO1964
Sun Jun 27, 2004 9:11 pm
#8


Well you know the nerfs are going to be severe as the Dev's have plainly stated thay do not want anyone soloing high end mobs and to them that means you won't be able to solo anything on Dath, Dant, Endor or Lok. With their lack ofability I have no doubt that masters won't be able to solo a Gubber by the time they are done.


BigLands
Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:20 am
#9

This really is too much.

Let me sum up - we've had no input on the changes, the changes are going to screw pistoleers over mightily since we already have low DPS and accuracy, we have no right to reply to the said changes, thay fail to take into account ANY of the other issues that need to be balanced before turning on such a change (specials, disparity between professions etc etc ad infinitum)


and of course we were not told about them until the last minute, when oops! it was too late anyway.


Since today isn't April 1st I have to assume it is the aim of the Dev team to piss us all of until we stop playing the game.

I don't have an issue with changes to balance combat - I do have an issue when our input is constantly ignored and our profession is shafted AGAIN by a development team that seems to have only a passing aquaintance with reality.


Think about it folks, we're bottom of the accuracy pile, we're bottom of the DPS pile and now, miraculously it takes the same time to pull a pistol from a holster as it does to manhandle a T21 to get it ready to fire.



Shaw Lands
Formerly Pistoleer & Entirely Legitimate Businessman
One Time Avatar of the Old Republic
Cancelled after waiting for the Smuggler Revamp for a year and a half.
Squidwalker
Mon Jun 28, 2004 7:48 am
#10

ROFL, now that is pretty sad. I dare you to go try a big nasty kreetle. No way you will survive with this. LOL


Ho boy. I see this causing some serious flames if this makes it to live. But I find it interesting that a durni even took that much damage to take down.



Teranus Blan'Fyl
OldSchool Ranger
Short-Timer
Squidwalker
Mon Jun 28, 2004 7:52 am
#11






Randonb wrote:

I know.. it's bad. Your results are consistent with my own tests, which were much more thorough. I've (politely) made it clear that I am furious with development for pushing a core combat change onto TC Bria and then immediately "locking down" the publish. It appears that no more changes will be allowed. My requests to have the accuracy changes temporarilypulled have noteven been responded to.


Frankly, I am at a loss as to how a new player is expected to climb the skill tree. I don't want to cause a panic, but I don't want to pull the wool over anybody's eyes, either.







OK now I'm really worried. Cause Rand is pretty cool and collected and keeps us pistoleers in check until we see hard data. And they won't even respond, and it's locked into gonig live?


Umm how about that post from TH that said "please log into TC Bria2 and try the new changes for us. Please give us feedback on the changes before we go live." What's the point if nothing was going to get changed? How much you want to bet that that post is deleted?


So let me get this right. They were going to launch the CB in 4 phases. But then realized after the creature change and CH change part of it, that it would seriously nerf people until it was all done. So they decide to work on it, and not launch the CB until they had ALL the code for ALL of it. That way, we ALL get ALL the changes and it "doesn't feel like a nerf" to quote Thunderheart on that. Now they are pushing a part of the CB out, and thus causing that "feeling like a nerf" to the entire combat game. And all this because of some freaking jedi revamp? Seems to me the jedi have to much influence on the game.


What the hell do jedi bring to the game and community? Now Rangers, they are seriously needing a revamp, and we bring the organic resources into the community, and provide for the docs, BE, and AS. But do we even get a tossed peace of meat over the devs sholder? No.


Devs are freaking dumb asshats!!! Delete this or lock it, will just prove my point.

Message Edited by Squidwalker on 06-28-2004 08:06 AM



Teranus Blan'Fyl
OldSchool Ranger
Short-Timer
WinterRoseASFR
Mon Jun 28, 2004 8:49 am
#12

Considers even more, the switch to City of Heroes or The Matrix Online... Having seen the former at my brother's house, that seems pretty bug free and tested already. And after a year of this crap, we get more slaps to the face? This is really too much.



Rookery DeCarabas, The Zeltron Zabrak, Enthralling Gunslinger, Corellia - Eclipse
"Walk easy, shoot straight, and luck in your steps!"

Rookery's Guide to Pistoleer Weaponry (Pistol Histories & Origins FAQ 3.0)
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=pistoleer&message.id=54538
Squidwalker
Mon Jun 28, 2004 10:15 am
#13






WinterRoseASFR wrote:
Considers even more, the switch to City of Heroes or The Matrix Online... Having seen the former at my brother's house, that seems pretty bug free and tested already. And after a year of this crap, we get more slaps to the face? This is really too much.





yes this game is wacked out at times. But I guarentee you ANY MMO will go through this sort of thing. Especially in first year.



Teranus Blan'Fyl
OldSchool Ranger
Short-Timer
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