Pistoleer Archive
Thread: IMPORTANT TEST CENTER UPDATE
biwan:If I understand this new HAM combat special mechanic correctly, it may be clearer to think of it like this:
Let's say you have 1000 max health HAM, and are not wounded or damaged. Instead of looking at it as having 1000 health, think of it as having 0 damage, and you can take 1000 damage before becoming incapped.
As you take damage, that damage number will increase, and as you use specials, your "Incap value" of 1000 will decrease. So through combat, we will now have BOTH ends of our HAM bars moving. If they ever meet or cross... BAM, we are incapped.
This system sounds very intriguing... I'll have to hop on over to Test and give it a spin or three. I would imagine a change of this magnitude to such an integralgame systemwill bea major game-changer. We all need to give the Devs as much feedback as we can on if this change is for good or ill.
First, the damage mitigation skills:
Pistoleer - Ranged - Techniques line
Carbineer - Ranged - Counterinsurgency line
Rifleman - Ranged - Conceal line
Commando - Melee - Field Tactics line
BH - Melee - Investigation line
Smuggler - none
Fencer - Melee - Techniques line
Pikeman - Melee - Techniques line
Swordsman - Melee - Defense line
TKA - Melee - Balance Conditioning line
Interesting things to note here. BH and Commando have Melee damage mitigation, which makes for rather limited PvP use. In addition, since the BH damage mitigation is in the investigation line, dabblers aren't going to have much of that skill. In all cases, the level 3 damage mitigation are in the master box.
Smuggler doesn't have any damage mitigation skills and I doubt they ever will, considering that they have no combat modifiers whatsoever and that's probably not going to change.
As for stacking, that'll be interesting to see. The problem is that with other skills, like dodge for example, we need a pistol equipped for the skill to work. For BH's and commandos, if they are using a pistol, how will the game know whether the melee or ranged damage mitigation should apply? It appears that for these two classes, if they dabble into pistoleer, they will get stacking ranged and melee damage mitigation skills when using the appropriate weapon. Course this is just a hypothesis and it may prove wrong.
Second, the special HAM cost changes:
Healing still drains from the mind pool like normal, instead of making the mind pool smaller. Dancing and playing music still drain from the action pool like normal, instead of making the action pool smaller.
Yes, only combat moves were affected by this change. Pick up novice marksman and spam some overcharge shots and let us know what you think...
Oh, and I don't know if smuggler is supposed to get damage mitigation or not. It may be a bug. But they have Pistol IV and Unarmed IV as part of their pre-reqs. You'd think they'dget some form of damage mitigation.
Message Edited by DiLune on 11-26-2003 09:37 PM
Here's how it stands now on TC: +10 Melee Defense in each of the Stances Line boxes. +5 Melee Defense at Master Pistoleer. Don't know how different this is from Live.
Philosopher1976 wrote:
Hey guys ... I'm in another city, posting with a 56k modem, so bear with me if I don't post as much for the next few days.
I noticed in the Patch Notes that we also got additional melee defense modifiers on TC? Can someone confirm this and find out how much more we got?
In general the Patch Notes are disappointing, insofar as there were a bunch of new features for Carbineers (e.g. new Carbine in quest) and Riflemen (e.g. new Sniper mode, lots of new bonuses, etc) but not much new for us, sadly.
One thing you guys might also have noticed, from the patch notes, is that the melee modifiers (2.5x for Riflemen and Commandos, etc.) have been removed. This has been in the works for a while. Just something that is worth noting.
Philosopher1976 wrote:
Well it's still possible to incap yourself, it's just harder to do. You do seem to lower your own max HAM, although I ran so few tests so I don't know if your "actual" HAM stays the same even as your "max" is lowered. Here's what I mean:
One possible way the system could work is that if I spam specials and my max HAM goes from 1000 to 800, a creature only needs to hit me for 800 damage to incap me. Another possible way the system could work is that the "max HAM" just limits your specials but that your actual HAM stays the same. So my "max HAM" goes to 800 but it still takes 1000 to incap me.
Based on what I saw on TC, the first one is the way it's working. When you spam specials you get a negative value in the "modifier" column of your Character Sheet (where things like buffs, etc go now). My impression is that your HAM itself goes down as you spam, so it's still possible to hurt yourself enough to help the enemy kill you ... but far less likely for non-medics.
My initial reaction to the system is that it's a lot more newb-friendly. The previous system rewarded players who knew how to clear their combat queue and add a heal in there. The new system allows a new player to spam his CDEF without "punching himself in the head" at the same time, so to speak.
Thanks for going over it again Phil 
- I'd prefer the second option, but I do think the first is an improvement on the system at the moment (also a nice co-incidence, given that I dropped all my medic skills recently 
)
I'll get on the test center and try it out, and I advise everyone else do so too - according to the IGN interview with Hadan, vehicles are going to go live on the test center very soon, so we're likely to see the Devs concentrating on that, rather than this system and indeed us poor old low priority pistoleers.
Trayson_Antilles wrote:
Here's how it stands now on TC: +10 Melee Defense in each of the Stances Line boxes. +5 Melee Defense at Master Pistoleer. Don't know how different this is from Live.
Philosopher1976 wrote:
Hey guys ... I'm in another city, posting with a 56k modem, so bear with me if I don't post as much for the next few days.
I noticed in the Patch Notes that we also got additional melee defense modifiers on TC? Can someone confirm this and find out how much more we got?
In general the Patch Notes are disappointing, insofar as there were a bunch of new features for Carbineers (e.g. new Carbine in quest) and Riflemen (e.g. new Sniper mode, lots of new bonuses, etc) but not much new for us, sadly.
One thing you guys might also have noticed, from the patch notes, is that the melee modifiers (2.5x for Riflemen and Commandos, etc.) have been removed. This has been in the works for a while. Just something that is worth noting.
I think the change is decent. I can't be 100% sure where our Melee defense comes from currently but mine is in the 40's with just Pistols/Ranged Support off the Marksman line.
Thoughts on the HAM from test: A buddy and I tried it out on his account (Pistols III in marksman) and we found it a far better implementation of the system. your HAM comes back pretty quick, but it still potentially may discourage the severe spamming we all do and toss some more strategy into the game. (Every combat class is guilty of SPAM-MANIA ) It's definately more user friendly and makes a lot more logisitcal sense than the old way
The only problem is your basing it off of marksmen 3 specials, and probably using a scout blaster...Which makes it very non-Ham instesive....
Higher up the tree, and with better weapons, the HAM costs go up, from most reports I have seen the change is not a good one, especially coupled with the midigation change (which may be good on its own)....For the simple reason that they both work together to do something bad...IE...
Midigation will lower the damage of everything, and extend fights, especially since healing will be alot more powerful...The HAM change will prevent constant specials, wich makes people rely on default attack again extending the fights....
hehe, I just see alot of people standing infront of each other waiting for who runs out of mind to heal themselves first
Granted we were using Pistol III, but I had no problems with the pretty bulky CDEF Pistol but the issue remains the same: It may force people to rethink their strategy. As it stands, if you have a good buff or some med skill there is no penalty for taking your best special and just spamming it away. Speed plays an issue at first, but at Master Level that is definately not a problem.
I don't think after a few trial runs it will ever get to the point where two people have near 0 HAM bars waiting for regen, Instead it will force us to understand the limitations of our character and adjust accordingly.
Hey guys ... I'm in another city, posting with a 56k modem, so bear with me if I don't post as much for the next few days.
I noticed in the Patch Notes that we also got additional melee defense modifiers on TC? Can someone confirm this and find out how much more we got?
In general the Patch Notes are disappointing, insofar as there were a bunch of new features for Carbineers (e.g. new Carbine in quest) and Riflemen (e.g. new Sniper mode, lots of new bonuses, etc) but not much new for us, sadly.
One thing you guys might also have noticed, from the patch notes, is that the melee modifiers (2.5x for Riflemen and Commandos, etc.) have been removed. This has been in the works for a while. Just something that is worth noting.
And for whoever said now it's going to take more strategy... well, what about healing yourself when you're getting low health? That is strategy... you gotta time it perfectly or you could get incapped by an action shot.