Pistoleer Archive
Thread: What the heck happened to bleeds??? Here's the scoop
Shazeen wrote:
Does anyone know what the exact damage/delay mods are on HS2 & HS1? If they ever fix the random HAM damage bug(?), then these might be useful as a health-targeted attack as opposed to BS2 & BS3. It might be a stretch (and they still wouldnt be as useful as they were before), but it would give them a use within the profession. Something to think about anyway.
NOt 100% sure but I think its close to 1 sec....at least as a master I can do HS2 & HS1 pretty darn fast......let's just give it a 1.5 second delay at worst.....I do know that HS1 can fire and a couple of normal shots can get in sometimes before I can even hit the peace button. So I know the delay is very short for them...but probably is due to my speed mods more than anything.
Theres a site that has all the speed mods for all the specials and the types of attacks each special does or is supposed to do. I forget the name of the site, but its in the fan site section on the SWG main page. with all the changes lately, the numbers might not be exact, but they give you a rough idea how specials compare to each other...it's better than nothing at all.
KnightHawk420 wrote:
So I'll restate again... Just what is the purpose of changing the damage done by bleeds?
then bringing both guns together for a duel stopping shot and when they get close a one handed pistol whip, while firing the other gun. That's what we need to be like. Straight pistol sucks now just b/c we don't do much damage. We should all boycott these horrible bleeds until they actually work.
Arafu wrote:
KnightHawk420 wrote:
So I'll restate again... Just what is the purpose of changing the damage done by bleeds?
I think they have lowered it too much, but the principal is simple - it would be bad for the game if all 5 pistoleers to get 2full bleeds on the target.
For sake of argument lets focus on that one sentence and ask the question why is that bad?
Now you may want to say because it would allow those 5 to kill something they otherwise couldn't kill anyway, but now tell me what 5 combat professions when grouped couldn't kill everything in the game anyway?
I have a buddy a tka/commando... between us with buffs and armor there is NOTHING except for a krayt and a gorax, and a nightsister elder that we cant' take down just between the both of us. Give us 3 more people, say a CM, and 2 rifleman we'll go out krayt killing all day long.
Considering the last sentence do you really think 5 pistoleers stacking they're bleeds would really be overpowered? Or otherwise bad for the game? If you think so, please let me know why.
KnightHawk420 wrote:
I have a buddy a tka/commando... between us with buffs and armor there is NOTHING except for a krayt and a gorax, and a nightsister elder that we cant' take down just between the both of us. Give us 3 more people, say a CM, and 2 rifleman we'll go out krayt killing all day long.
Considering the last sentence do you really think 5 pistoleers stacking they're bleeds would really be overpowered? Or otherwise bad for the game? If you think so, please let me know why.
I think 5 pistoleers stacking 10 bleeds which will do at least 6K every 20 seconds ignoring armour is a little overpowered (thats the equivalent of 60K shooting damage against something with 90% armour!).
5 Pistoleers stacking 2 bleeds (the old system) or 5 pistoleers stacking 10 bleeds (new system) doing 1.2K every 20 seconds are botha little under powered.
I cant say that the change has affected my soloingparticularly. If anything, the removal of bleeds has increased my damage output as I'm not spending a few shots doing no damage trying to get a big bleed. Plus I tend to kill things that have low armour and that I can kill for max xp in minimum of time!
When it comes to bleeds in a group, it is really pointless to do unless you are fighting krayts, kimos, NS, SMC's....you know the elite mobs in the game or anything with 40k, 50k, 60k....etc HAM bars. anything less and a group will kill the target with other specials faster than the first bleed will take place. With the change to bleeds and that they do actual damage on the first shot, that's only equivelant to doing a disarming shot, double tap or point blank shot as a pistoleer. Other professions I'm not sure what special to equate the new bleeds to....but my point is that the change actually effects people like myself who use and need the old bleeds to solo some higher level mobs. The devs don't want that and therefore anything that allows a solo player to take down an elite mob will be nerfed when they can fit it into their schedules.
Regardless of the reason for them changing bleeds, the fact still remains that bleeds are useless now because any special you have can do more damage than bleeds now without haviing to wait 15 - 20 seconds....well I can speak for the pistoleer bleeds...don't know about others....oh except the fencer bleeds....I haven't paid much attention to them because my target is usually dead before I tell how effective the bleed was....that tends to happen when your fighting 6 -12 at one time which I do often. I just bought a RB that does close to 300 damage and when I shoot most targets with stopping shot (which I can do almost 1 every 1.5 seconds or so), I get an average of 1300 damage output. Subtract the defenses of the target and I'm still doing more damage with a flurry of stopping shots than any bleed does now in 20 seconds....this makes bleeds useless and a waste of time.
In groups, so what 5 pistoleers can stack 10 bleeds on a target, you still only get the initial damage plus whatever percentage it is after that every 20 seconds. Anyway, other than the mobs that require you to have a big group to take it down (Krayts...etc) what other mob that the everyday average group will be hunting will you need to bleed......answer NONE. Nobody I know ever used bleeds that much in groups to make much of a noticeable difference before the nerf, so I don't think this change was any more beneficial for groups.
I just believe some specials are ideal for group situations (Fan Shot)and others are ideal for solo situations....bleeds are for solo situations in my opinion. But what do I know, I'm just the person who used bleeds to solo a 98k kimo on lok because I had to....it would only kill me in 2 - 3 hits if we went toe-to-toe. So what was my options.....bleed and kite/run, fight a little and run, heal, rinse and repeat. other option, go get a group and take away that feeling of accomplishment that you were able to kill something way more powerful than you solo....not to mention split all the xp and loot.......I know sounds selfish....but we all have a little selfishness in us to a degree.....but sorry, I like my solo accomplishments. It means that much more than a group simply because of numbers. groups just give me the feeling like I have a basketball team of 5 joe blowsand my opponent has 1 michael jordan......wow wheres the big deal in that. The 5 should win in my oppinion. now 1 joe blow vs 1 michael jordan, now theres something to be proud of.
Oh yeah, tried another kimo and he slaughtered me and my swoop, me 2 hits with a 900 disease or poison whatever it was and my swoop in 1 hit.....hehehe, was fun though. I didn't even have time to get my bleeds in either since they break your mask scent at 64m seems like everytime.
however, made my point. just one more special pistoleers have to add to the list of useless specials....were getting used to it though because everyone is using BH and Smuggler specials instead.....
Arafu wrote:
KnightHawk420 wrote:
I have a buddy a tka/commando... between us with buffs and armor there is NOTHING except for a krayt and a gorax, and a nightsister elder that we cant' take down just between the both of us. Give us 3 more people, say a CM, and 2 rifleman we'll go out krayt killing all day long.
Considering the last sentence do you really think 5 pistoleers stacking they're bleeds would really be overpowered? Or otherwise bad for the game? If you think so, please let me know why.
I think 5 pistoleers stacking 10 bleeds which will do at least 6K every 20 seconds ignoring armour is a little overpowered (thats the equivalent of 60K shooting damage against something with 90% armour!).
5 Pistoleers stacking 2 bleeds (the old system) or 5 pistoleers stacking 10 bleeds (new system) doing 1.2K every 20 seconds are botha little under powered.
I cant say that the change has affected my soloingparticularly. If anything, the removal of bleeds has increased my damage output as I'm not spending a few shots doing no damage trying to get a big bleed. Plus I tend to kill things that have low armour and that I can kill for max xp in minimum of time!
Well step back a bit. Your going off track here. We are suppsoed to be discussing this within the context of how the system currently works. Not as it existed.
Because right off the top I would of said resists should have bearing on bleeds. And the bleeds from a single person are not supposed to stack. So throw out your 1k bleed damage figure. If resists mattered, and singular bleeds didn't stack 1k would be impossible even if given the original dmg numbers that bleed did. IF with original numbers were talking 300 - 400 dmg bleeds per person. Back to our 5 test dummies the most they ought to be able to do is 2k combined bleed hit... every 5 - 10 seconds or whatever it is.
And we were not discussingsoloing with bleeds.Nor am I trying to make a case to go back to the way it was. What I would make a case about is the change in damage to the bleeds. Forget stacking, forget resists changes, those are fine with me. I'm just talking damage in and of itself.