Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Weapons Accuracy Test
Noules very very awsome work...The formula is wonderful, and I belive you are 100% correct on it 
.
It now confirms that +100 accuracy is not the cap, and suprisingly state effects+special move effects are more effective then accuracy.
Now things I wish for.
1.) Specials would list their +to hit....
2.) State effects would show thier negatives they will inflict 
.
Very great work tho, thank you noules!
Some tidbits (assuming I'm right, of course):
- Being prone is equivalent of +60 accuracy.
- BS2 is the equivalent of +50 accuracy.
- Ranged Defense works to exactly nullify accuracy.
- Target being prone is only -25 accuracy.
- Target tumbling is about -20 accuracy. (not sure if it affects shooter)
We'll try measuring effects of running next time. The plan is to run a person into the corner of building so they're moving without really moving (so to speak).
Things to check:
- Other status effects
- Specials to-hit (this one will be a doozy)
- Someone with high ranged defense mod
- Someone with high active defense mods
- Sanity check with melee
- Weapon condition
Also, we still had no evades in set B (where I did not use any styles). This further reinforces my belief that 'evade' and 'dodge' are synonymous. There doesn't seem to be an 'evade' skill, either, just dodge, block and counterattack. It's interesting to note that there were no instances of block, either. Either block has no 'default' value or it's a melee-only thing.
Noules000 wrote:
BlackPearl wrote:
As a conclusion on just a small portion of your work, would I be correct in thinking that a Master Pistoleer with Ranged Weapon Support 4 from Marksman who has a +13 Ranged Defense (I believe) only gets missed an additional 7.5 times out of 100?
Assuming my understanding is correct - it would be 6.5 times out of 100 (13/2). I don't have a target with lots of ranged defense, so this comes from my experimentation with group ranged defense (I assumed group ranged defense is equivalent to ranged defense). Depending on what the base hit rate is, this could be significant or very insignificant. Something to note though is that ranged defense presumably all stacks. It's possible to get a lot of ranged defense (and melee defense) by taking a line or two of a few melee classes. TKA precision line is the most valuable (+30 ranged defense!) followed by fencer stances&grips. It should be noted that defense is harder to get than accuracy, presumably precisely because it is stackable. The maximum that I could get when working out a defensive build was +120 (90 from self, 30 from a master SL friend).
Oops, late night post and bad calculations, I meant 6.5 also yes.
That max defense though of +120 is big, a 60% swing made possible just by that series of mods.
2 things,
Firstly, great info, it's nice to know accuracy isn't capped and to understand the mechanics.
Secondly, you mentioned you are a CH.Does the "Creature-to-hit" bonus you gained in the Hunting tree of Scout relevant at all?
Set C (interrupted by Tarquinas crashing, unfortunately):
This time I was the target, and Ali'qui was the shooter. My relevant mods were +35 ranged defense, +30 group ranged defense (I was grouped with Ali'qui the whole time), +20 block (I think, but it doesn't seem to matter - see below). Ali'qui has +65 pistol accuracy, +5 PA while moving, and +10 creature to-hit. The weapon used was a dropped CDEF pistol, with range mods of +35 at 15m and -80 at 64m. The range was again 60m, so the expected range modifier was again -70.6.
Expected from previous tests: (65 - 35 - 30 - 70.6)/2 + 66 = 30.7% chance to hit, base. I was prone for most of the sets, which should drive the chance to hit down to 18.2% (30.7% - (25/2)%).
1: Standing, standing (grouped) autofire
190,68,122 - 0,0,0
2: Standing, prone (grouped) autofire
187,43,144 - 0,0,0
3: Standing, prone (grouped) BS2
146,63,83 - 0,0,0
4: Standing, prone (grouped) Warning Shot
195,58,137 - 0,0,1
Analysis follows...
Experimental to-hit/Calculated to-hit
1: 35.8%, 30.7% (standing/standing, autofire)
2: 23.0%, 18.2% (standing/prone, autofire)
3: 43.0%, 43.2% (standing/prone, BS2)
4: 29.7%, ??% (standing/prone, warning shot - we didn't have info on WS before this test)
Note that sets C1 and C2 are about 5% larger than expected, while set C3 is right on the money. The difference is that C1/2 were done with -autofire-. Ali'qui has +10 creature to-hit - which only works when using autofire (implied bythe description). So, the most logical conclusion is that
*creature to-hit works in PvP (and by extension, humanoid mobs)*
and it works like any other accuracy modifier. This perfectly explains the 5% descrepancy (which had me scratching my head for a few minutes, before I realized it was exactly half of the c2hit mod).
Body shot 2 operated exactly as expected (+50 accuracy, or +25% net bonus).
Warning Shot 2 has what appear to be a +12% net bonus, or a +24 accuracy mod. This does contain some uncertainty (about 3%) so I suspect the actual value is +25 accuracy (it could be +20 or +30, though). This also proves that not all specials have the same accuracy mod. Once Tarq comes back up, we'll finish the test with Double-Tap at least and possibly a few other, less used specials. Ali'qui doesn't have SS/FS, unfortunately, and also doesn't have Suppression Fire, so it'll have to be in a different test set.
Many thanks to the person who asked about the creature to-hit. I'd completely forgotten about it, and I wouldn't have asked Ali'qui for this stat if it wasn't for the post on this thread.
Note that I had exactly one active defense trigger - a counterattack. I had FAR fewer than my less-defensively stacked targets did, and no dodges! Admittedly, Iwas prone for most of the test, butthere were 190 trials while I was standing - I would have expected 5-6 dodges if the theory about 3% base dodge rate held.What's going on here?
The damage values from this set is a bit weird, again - some values drop below that 41 damage cut-off I noticed before. Something worth investigating, but I'm not seeing any patterns yet.
Finally, I'm not sure it was clear, but in all cases the target is not holding any weapons to avoid autofire return on the shooter - this is avoidable by 'peace' on the target, but it was assumed the weapon would make no difference, or if it did, to eliminate that variable from the experiment anyway.
Noules000 wrote:
Note that I had exactly one active defense trigger - a counterattack. I had FAR fewer than my less-defensively stacked targets did, and no dodges! Admittedly, Iwas prone for most of the test, butthere were 190 trials while I was standing - I would have expected 5-6 dodges if the theory about 3% base dodge rate held.What's going on here?
The damage values from this set is a bit weird, again - some values drop below that 41 damage cut-off I noticed before. Something worth investigating, but I'm not seeing any patterns yet.
Finally, I'm not sure it was clear, but in all cases the target is not holding any weapons to avoid autofire return on the shooter - this is avoidable by 'peace' on the target, but it was assumed the weapon would make no difference, or if it did, to eliminate that variable from the experiment anyway.
Noules000, any chance that the dodge modified is linked to the currently equiped weapon. That with no pistol your dodge modifier is 0, with pistol equipped its +xx (hence your low dodge rate)
I guess its unlikely, but it wouldn't supprise me
Hawks - Flurry
Master Pistoleer / Master CM
Hawkstone wrote:
Noules000, any chance that the dodge modified is linked to the currently equiped weapon. That with no pistol your dodge modifier is 0, with pistol equipped its +xx (hence your low dodge rate)
I guess its unlikely, but it wouldn't supprise me
Hawks - Flurry
Master Pistoleer / Master CM
Probably not. Neither of my targets had pistol equipped, either (we were all unarmed when playing the target). My current suspicion is that ranged defense somehow reduces the effectiveness of active defenses, but this is just wild speculation at this point.
Noules000 wrote:
Probably not. Neither of my targets had pistol equipped, either (we were all unarmed when playing the target). My current suspicion is that ranged defense somehow reduces the effectiveness of active defenses, but this is just wild speculation at this point.
Ahh, well if active defences only kick in on a hit, ie it got passed the ranged defence to trigger a active defence check, then that supports your theory.
Anyways, i will grab my second account, get off my lazy behind and run a few tests also. Keep up the good work Noules!!
Hawks
I'm making my appearance. /twirl /spin /curtsy
You have no idea how much fun it is to shoot Noules a few thousand times.
/twirl /spin /curtsy