Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Are we really that bad?
Panicshot and lastditch?? Pistoleers don’t get those attacks. I think you’re on the wrong board.
ChefD wrote:
Once again, not every special should be renamed to what it does. Stoppingshot is useful and not broken. It seems the only problem is that it's name doesn't match it's ability and I have no problem with that. I deal damage quickly and effectively using stoppingshot. There are bigger fish to fry in our abilities... like double tap and the two disarms.
From RandonB:
Stopping Shot: Works, but is inferior to Fan Shot until the player is a Master Pistoleer with a 1.2 speed pistol. One could argue that Stopping Shot is good for single targets and Fan Shot is good for multiple targets, but this doesn't hold water. A relatively experienced player should have no trouble aiming the cone effect to avoid unwanted targets. Versus a single target, Body Shot 3 (2.5 multiplier) brings targets down faster than Stopping Shot (5.0 multiplier) unless the player is at the speed cap, and even then, it only kills 10% faster. (Fix: Give Stopping Shot a posture change down effect.)
Specifically, stoppingshot is good for single targets and should be used in conjuction with fanshot not in place of it. Saying "it only kills 10% faster" doesn't seem like an argument in favor for it's "yellow" status. I have a problem with terms like "inferior" since that is a subjective term. The special isn't broken due to being useful "only at the speed cap" and it sure isn't broken because thename is non-descriptive. We could go on and on about this, but we should not because we have specials that really DO NOTHING, stoppingshot is not one of them. To focus on this special is to lose sight of other problems.
See, the Status of Pistoleer Specialslist is what is being presented to the devs and I look at it and think not everything in itis accurately represented.
ChefD,
Look I can understand your trying to be optimistic. Let me ask you this. All things being equal meaning armor, buffs, and foods.....where do you think Pistoleer is on the food chain in the Ranged Professions. If you did not say last, you need to master other professions.
If you say last, why are we on the bottom when Pistols is the most widely used weapon in the star wars films. I hate use the whole "Its starwars where have you seen that weapon" line, but dammmmm were talking about Pistols, the most used weapon in StarWars. Do I want every profession to be balanced so we shot each other with the same damage no matter what profession we have...absolutely not. I do however feel its pathetic when I complain about being weaker in PvP and PvE then anyother profession, people just tell me to go get Rifleman and be happy.
Stopping Shot sucks. There is no if and's or buts about it. If all this special does is damage, its worthless because I will get out damaged by any profession (did I mention it was a random pool with a long delay). Can I kill a Rancor using Stopping Shot, again yes I can. I can probably also kill a Rancor with a CDEF pistol....what does that prove. It proves Rancors are hidously underpowered.
Maybe the problem is you need to try another profession. I suggest Carbineer...dont do Rifleman because you will be disappointed with everything else and quite frankly might not want to drop it after mastering. Once Mastering this profession tell me why you want to stay with Pistoleer. Heck I have Master Pistoleer and Master Smuggler and it still SUCKS! I dont normally whine but I have not used my Pistol to kill anything in the past couple weeks...oh my bad I killed a JantaRockshaper that had 100%kinectic resists to my MTK.
Look, Pistoleer is useable if you dont plan on going solo like all the other professions out there. If your happy doing missions from terminals and not going to any of the nice dungeons, then yes Pistoleer works enough to do the job. Just keep in mind this profession used work at the begining of the game (heck we used to have an AoE k/d like CArbineers). Because it "worked" so good, they nerfed the profession to bring it down to the broken professions. Now after 6 months all the broken professions have been givin some love where we have:
1) sonic pistol (still no specials to really capitalize on this weapon)
2) republic blaster cert moved (some guns can even still be used without pistoleer...nice fix but not surprised)
As I've said before Carbineers do the twice the damage at the same speed and I dont even need to point out Rifleman because they outdamage us so much its sick. You have to look at the bigger picture when deciding whether or not a special is working. Dont base it on the fact you killed a low level creature easy, you have to compare yourself to the professions out there or you will never compete and will always be broken.
Eked wrote:
I'm kinda suprised by all the whiners in here, I've db'd more than my share of rifleman... My secret is to run up on them and stay close.. rifle sucks at close range. pistol whip, panicshot, lastditch, lastditch, lastditch... bye bye.
lol, just so you know first off pistol whip is almost a mele attack. Second Panicshot was nerfed so take that out of the equation all together. Third, looks to me like your more a Smuggler than a Pistoleer seeing that 80% of that macro is Smuggler specials lol. You basicly proved my point that Pistoleer sucks. It sucks so much you ahve to go to another profession to get usable specials. Btw, lowblow is better than pistol whip anyday
WookieOgre wrote:
IYou mentioned stoppingshot, sorry that is a weak special if I've ever seen one. First off even when Carbineers were broken they still had Crippleshot, I would average 3-4k per shot with a non-krayted laser carbine (this is against mobs that have 40% energy resists). Now lets look at stoppingshot, a long delay and I only get 1-2k at MAX damage if the target has weak resists against my gun (I've not used it since Mastering the Smugglerprofession).
novamarine wrote:
WookieOgre wrote:
IYou mentioned stoppingshot, sorry that is a weak special if I've ever seen one. First off even when Carbineers were broken they still had Crippleshot, I would average 3-4k per shot with a non-krayted laser carbine (this is against mobs that have 40% energy resists). Now lets look at stoppingshot, a long delay and I only get 1-2k at MAX damage if the target has weak resists against my gun (I've not used it since Mastering the Smugglerprofession).
I normally stay out of debates in forums aside from carbineer, but when I see blatent miss information coming up, I just have to step in. 3-4k damage average is 3500 average. Divide that by 7.5 for the damage modifier and you get 467 damage. Thus, to average 3-4k damage from a carbine with crippleshot, you need a carbine that has an average damage of 467 damage which does not exist even in a krayt form.
The typical laser carbine with no slices is about 60-275 damage. That is an average of 168. That turns into an average damage hit of 1260. A damage-sliced carbine would go a bit higher but the average would no go over 2k.
If you want to rant about how lame or poor your class is, that is fine. But please at least make an effort to use accurate information. Making up overinflated info about other classes and then comparing your class to that incorrect info in some attempt to make your class look worse is just pathetic. Further, this really makes one wonder how "bad" your class really is. If you have to use false info to show how "bad" your class is, maybe you are not as "bad" off as you seem?
Lol wow. Ok......I didn't know that was such a sore spot, its not like I'm trying to cry nerf.Let me make this clear I wasnt trying to say carbineers are uber in anyway, but with my carbines I was able to hit with Cripple shot when I got a good shot in for 3-4k...(actually I think the highest I every got was about 3800 on a target but it was soooo long ago). I have a couple laser carbines damaged slice...non kryat that cost me 5k on my server that I bought a couple months ago. In fact I bought 5, all but one got damaged sliced. Almost ALL my laser carbines have a max damage with powerup at 450, the best one is 460 max damage with a 33% powerup. This is non-Krayt I'm assuming since the vendor sold the carbines in a crate for only 25k. These are damaged sliced with a powerup. The damage quite possible and I did do 3-4k hits, of course depending on the mob, using cripple shot. Now maybe saying average hit was 3500 was a little high. I really meant to imply half the time I was hitting between 3-4k.If you really technically average the actual damage on each hit since the min dmage is around 80 or 90,I probably averaged more like 2500 damage....fine you caught me. When I was firing the thing I swear nothing lasted long.....I killed Merks in like 3 shots if they all went to the same pool.
If you still dont believe me, come to my server and send me a tell or better yetI still have 2 of them left over from when I was a Master Carbineer. My house on my server is here on Dantooine: -3038 4175, I dont use them since giving up Master Carbineer. I would put it up on imagedump if i knew how but why would I, you would just say its fabricated then . I'll put one right in the front door for you and hang it up 
EVERYONE, MAY I HAVE YOUR ATTENTION PLEASE!
Rather than being disappointed with what we DON'T have, let's all be happy with what we DO ha......AHHHHHH!!!
*runs away as spoiled vegetables are thrown at him*
"Thus, to average 3-4k damage from a carbine with crippleshot, you need a carbine that has an average damage of 467 damage which does not exist even in a krayt form."
funny how someone just posted this carbine onthe boards with around 750 max damage. Even 2/3 of that is 500.
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=55573
(lets not forget ap2, either!)
Message Edited by BZebub on 03-29-2004 03:03 PM
BZebub wrote:
"Thus, to average 3-4k damage from a carbine with crippleshot, you need a carbine that has an average damage of 467 damage which does not exist even in a krayt form."
funny how someone just posted this carbine onthe boards with around 750 max damage. Even 2/3 of that is 500.
http://www.imagedump.com/index.cgi?pick=get&tp=55573
(lets not forget ap2, either!)
Message Edited by BZebub on 03-29-2004 03:03 PM
hehe, I knew there had to be better ones than mine. Heck I just bought it off a vendor in the middle of day.And yes, ap2 is awesome specially when stuff is vul to energy like Mereks....like I said, sometimes I could take mereks down in 3 shots. If the mob had no armor or was vul to energy....it was dead meat with my carbine. Where as you get my best pistol (also non-krayted and after nerf of pistols like fwg5) I can only do a max damage from what I've seen is about 1.5-1.7k damage using the best pistol special....Last Ditch.
Not saying Carbine is uber (not by a long shot), but likeI said I was trying to make a point that our best BIG attack does very weak damage compared to Crippleshot using a basic Marksman Carbine weapon. Rifleman....ok I dont even need to put numbers up because I'm dead on the ground mindbleeding to death before I finish calculating lol.
Again, no one needs a nerf. I just want to make sure everyone knows that this profession is worse than any ranged rofession in the game.
(this is not calculating in speed because I know the speed of carbines are slower than pistols)
Message Edited by WookieOgre on 03-29-2004 04:22 PM
You'll notice that I never actually said the special was broken. I don't like being misquoted. The entire purpose of having 3 colors is to categorize the specials that fall somewhere between "fine" and "broken." This is nothing new. We've been talking about Stopping Shot for a long time in a very negative way. Jaegen88 declared it useless, and Philosopher1976 declared it broken. I find it to be useless for most players.
This is something that I have hashed over with another combat correspondent repeatedly. The fact of the matter is, judging from the feedback I was reading at the time, Stopping Shot was primarily used by Pistoleer/BH hybrids and the majority of "pure" pistoleers weren't satisfied with the special. I'll break down some indisputable facts for you:
A mix of Fan Shot & Stopping Shot is always inferior to a straight-up spamming of Fan Shot, until you hit the speeds I outlined. People may mix them, but that doesn't make it a good idea.One special just has higher DPS than the other, and there is no way around it without hitting the speed cap. The difference is substantial. The only exception is when you really, really can't avoid catching unwanted targets in the cone. In my opinion, this is not justification for a special. You might be better off with Body Shot anyway. See below.
Message Edited by Randonb on 04-08-2004 11:48 PM
biwan:
Randonb wrote:
Every special should cater to every player at every level when they get it. Saying "This special is fine because it can sit in your datapad until you have enough speed for it" just doesn't fly with me. Body Shot 3 should be better than Body Shot 2, even if you go 3,0,0,0 Pistoleer. It's just intuitive. Similarly, Stopping Shot should have it's own niche no matter what your template.
Here Here!!!
I think you will find that very few pistoleers disagree with Randonb's state of thespecials report. For the most part, the report is accurate and reccomends reasonable fixes. As long as I can only (effectively) use 3 specials in the profession, then Im sure the community will continue to insist that we recieve the fixes we so richly deserve.