Pistoleer Archive

Thread: PVP Stratatagies for pistoleer

jcrules3333
Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:14 am
#14

Thanks for the advice, thats really helps, I never intended to go overt and hang out in the Coronet starport, I would want more to be able to do some descent dmg, and be good support when my guildies/friends do PVP. Thank you for the valueable info, and for the stone cold truth *tear* hahah, THANKS!



-FEAR THE RED TWI'LEK-
Sto'ek, Bounty Hunter at large
admiraljz
Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:09 am
#15



Being primarily a Bounty Hunter on Bloodfin since time immortal, I don't have an exceptional amount of experience PvPing AS a pistoleer (some), but I've PvPd AGAINST a lot of pistoleers. My build on Bria is Master Pistoleer/Master Commando/Smuggler 0030.


With the brawler pre-req on Commando, and the short-range accuracy of pistols combined with the dodge defense, and a melee defense of +85, I consider myself a melee-orientedranged profession. Specifically, in any PvP encounter I find I want to get into melee range as soon as possible. Unlike with my Bounty Hunter, I want my Commando/Pistoleer to be in close.


Since you're lacking my Commando skills in favor of doctor, you have some benefits over me, and I have some over you. Obviously you're able to clear states and heal health/action with a single shot. That means you have to be in close on Riflemen especially, to limit their ability to hit you at will. The suggestion to pick up novice brawler is important. Getting into close range on a rifleman and intimidating him can save your skin.


Pistoleer is a lot of fun to play, at least for me, and has some pretty good state defenses. In my testing, the dizzy defense doesn't always stop a good dizzy from sticking (fencers and Bounty Hunters have the best dizzy, TKMs the weakest), but it does seem to "lessen" the effects of the dizzy and help you get up faster.


The primary PvP problem with commando AND pistoleer against buffed and armored opponents is the lack of a devastating kill attack. You have to survive long enough to get DOTs applied and then go to work with your high-powered random pool attacks and hope for the best.


In my case, with the Rogue line in smuggler, I'd try a low-blow attack while charging into melee, and if the knockdown is successful, immediately spam warcry. This will keep them on the ground until you're able to close to your killing range. Once you're in your ideal range (varies by weapon, but pretty much anything inside 10m), use your Modified Republic Blaster to hit a healthshot 1 followed by a healthshot 2. This will put THREE stacked health bleeds on your target for as much as 300 per tick (the Mod Rep will tick 125 on it's own). Two HS2s will not stack, but it WILL stack with HS1. This is where your DOT attacks will end, unless you have a health poison DOT weapon, in which case you'll go for that next. I have a Geo Blaster with a pretty nasty action poison, so I'll throw that in as well. If they've gotten up by this point, pistol whip them with Melee Defense 1 and keep going. My next strategy, which isn't an option for you unforunately, is to lay a Flame Single 2 on top of the bleeds for a real nice stacked Health DOT.


The reason I'm focusing so much on the Health DOTS is that your best kill shots are random pool attacks, and MOST random pool attacks tend to hit the health pool hardest. This means you won't be having much luck against doctor or combat medic templates, since they'll be able to heal anything you do as fast as you can do it, but against the gripe of a lot of people, MOST people don't have doctor templates.


Now your attack shots will come from your pistol. Choose your weapon wisely. PSGs and stun armor are VERY common in regular PvPers. This means even the best Geonosian blaster isn't going to get much damage through. A DX2 will bypass a PSG, has exceptional accuracy, and can be sliced/pup'd to a decent min/max. Some people like to spam Healthshot2 as a pool-targeting killshot. It's similar in damage to the Bounty Hunter Torso shot, around 1k PvE damage or 250 PvP damage. Body Shot 3 seems to do significantly less damage. My recommondation is Stopping Shot or Fan Shot. Stopping Shot tends to do more damage per hit (1500-2k PvE) vs Fan Shot (1k to 1500 PvE), but Fan Shot has a shorter delay. To be perfectly honest I've not tested enough to determine if both shots can be fired at the cap once you've reached Master Pistoleer.


To sum upyou attack options: knock down with pistol whip (and/or low blow if you have the skill), lay on as many bleeds as you can, and then go to work on dealing as much damage as you can.


Weapon selection for Pistoleers is basic.


DX2 pistol: Nice min/max, exceptional accuracy and speed, acid damage bypasses PSGs

Geonosian Sonic Blaster: Exceptional min/max, exceptional accuracy, average speed, can be completely nullified by stun armor/PSG. Aboslutely DEVATATING to someone without either.

Modified Republic Blaster: Poor Min/Good Max, exceptionally INNACURATE, average speed, can be almost completely negated by armor/PSG. Useful ONLY for the 125 health bleed DOT.

Featherweight FWG5 pistol: Poor Min/Good Max, fairly accurate, very fast speed, completely worthless against fully armored opponents due to AP0. Against scantily-armored opponents, possibly useful for hitting for high damage to unprotected aread (although I would prefer the DX2 for this situation).

DE-10 Pistol: Exceptional min/max, fairly accurate, extremely slow. It's a hand cannon, basicallya pistol-grip Elite Carbine stats-wise. Capable of destroying an unarmored or poorly armored opponent.

Striker Pistol (PvE only): Decent min/max, decent accuracy, very fast, kinetic damage. Keep one of these on-hand for group encounters against mid-level Nightsisters.


A Master Pistoler has a really good dodge rate at +105. Hard to hit with innacurate weapons, or weapons outside their ideal range (such as T-21s at point blank range). Pretty good state defenses, such as dizzy/stun/blind. As a Master Doctor you should clear these states as soon as they do stick if they do get past your defenses. You will want to fight close in, so against Bounty Hunters and Melee opponents you'll want to create a macro:


/ui action clearCombatQueue;

/stand;


and tap it very slowly and patiently until you've stood back up if you get knocked down. Don't spam it, or you'll cause yourself to fall again if you DO stand up.


Some foods are essential. Anti-KD food can save you a LOT of grief but it's very filling. See how well you do with your own innate KD/dizzy defenses for a bit, before deciding to invest in this. Two shots of Brandy are essential. Keep your drink stomach filled with brandy and have a muon on stand-by. Similarly, keep a couple loafs of good (600+) canape handy for emergencies to boost your willpower and help stave off poisons or mind attacks. Nothing like 2500 focus to take the edge off a middle of the road CM poison. Citros Snow Cake, positively ESSENTIAL in PvP. Adds as much as +36 to your attack accuracy. Nibble on a Snow Cake and you WON'T miss inside your ideal range. Synthetic Steak, another essential. As much as 45% damage reduction. It's like another layer of armor, and coupled with decent composite, a PSG, and intimidate, can make you virtually immortal for it's duration. You may also consider dodge food, to cap out your dodge defense and make yourself even harder to hit. If you're a Rebel, look for Deadeye as well if you have Alderaan Flora (otherwise will have to wait for Devs to code the replacement). As a Master Doctor you should be able to make Deadeye with 45% accuracy increase for close to 15 minutes duration. Again, as with the Snow Cake (or in addition to), you will NOT miss within your ideal range.


There are two keys to winning in PvP: Last longer than your opponent, do more damage over time than your opponent. Remember that attacks to a knocked down opponent are significantly multiplied. Your pistol-whip, like all KD attacks, is on a timer. Every 30 seconds go for another KD, then warcy, and lay on your attack while you have them down.


Another very key point to consider is that being at point blank range and MOVING gives YOU the advantage. A pistoleer should never stand still against a hard-hitting opponent. Stay in close range, but dodge and dart all over the place. Your accuracy will not suffer MUCH (and hardly at all if it's enhaced with food or drug), but your opponent will have a much harder time hitting YOU.


All in all, don't expect to outright win a lot of fights, especially against temploiters, but if you're whupped by a CM/Rifleman or a Fencer/TK/Doctor, don't sweat it. Those guys beat everyone. Temploiters aside your greatest challenge should be against Bounty Hunters, who can not only lay multiple knockdows and states on you, but can also out-damage you in a straight-up shootout. Among non-temploting classes, Bounty Hunters and Riflemen have perhaps the strongest pool-specific attacks of any profession template. Keep moving, keep pistol whipping, and keep shooting, and make sure you've taken care of your own defenses with armor and foods, and you'll at least be competetive. For fun in PvP, that's all I personally look for. If I lose a long, thrilling fight, I'm just as happy as if I'd won. Fun is what it's all about.


Hope that helps!


Message Edited by admiraljz on 06-15-2004 12:11 PM

Message Edited by admiraljz on 06-15-2004 12:22 PM



Aucka - Eromi - Ecaro
Widowmakers
Test Center
New Aldera, Naboo
Officer - Jedi - Engineer

raldurrm
Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:20 am
#16

my pistols pvp suggestion... go after the unarmored one and if none are unarmored run



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BodaZepha
Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:25 am
#17

damn good post admir thanks a lot for your input. VERY NICE!!



Ani Sijab
TKM/Master Pistoleer
Starsider
IdeaEve
Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:52 am
#18

May sound dumb asking this heh, but what is DOT?



Hipe
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admiraljz
Tue Jun 15, 2004 10:14 am
#19






IdeaEve wrote:

May sound dumb asking this heh, but what is DOT?







A DOT is "damage over time," or, the attack that keeps on giving. DOTs in SWG come in the form of bleeds, fire, poison, and disease, and continue to cause damage at a set interval, at a set strength based on the initial attack, for a certain amount of time.


Most special attack DOTs (such as bleeding and fire), seem to be based on about 25% of the initial damage. For example, if I were to hit for 1000 points with Health Shot 2, the bleeding DOT would be 250 points every 10 seconds (may not be exact, but as an example).


No one player can stack the SAME identical DOT on the same target. For instance, I could not shoot Joe Q BountyHunter with Healthshot 2 twice and cause two bleeds. However, I could shoot with Healthshot 1 and Healthshot 2, and THOSE would stack. In addition, some weapons may cause DOTs on their own, without the use of special attacks, such as the Modified Republic Blaster, which can create a health bleed with just an autofire attack. Therefore, I could stack Healthshot 1, Healthshot 2, AND the health bleed from the Republic Blaster on the same target (as well as the health bleed from the Enhanced E11 Carbine if I were certified to use it.


That said, TWO different player CAN stack identical DOTs on the same target. If I and Jane Q Pistoleer both shot Joe Q. BountyHunter with Healthshot 2, those DOTs would stack and do double damage over time.


I'm uncertain what the duration period is for innate special attack DOT moves (such as Healthshot), but all DOT weapons will include the pertinent stats regarding exactly what the DOT will do. Such as:


Type: Bleed
Pool: Health
Strength: 125 (this is how much will tick every 10 seconds)
Potency: 50% (this is the likelyhood that the attack will apply the DOT, in this case a 1 in 2 chance)
Duration: 85 seconds (will therefore "tick" 8 times)
Uses: 9999 (the DOT from this weapon can be used 9999 times before the weapon will no longer apply a DOT. If this number is -1, the DOT is infinite... ie, the weapon will never wear out as long as the weapon is not broken during a repair).


DOTs are intended to work as supplimentary damage to main attacks, but in some cases remain overbalanced and have become the primary damage-dealer for many professions (such as Pikeman, who have access to very commonly looted DOT weapons, and Combat Medics, who craft their own poison and disease DOTs).


Hope that helps!






Aucka - Eromi - Ecaro
Widowmakers
Test Center
New Aldera, Naboo
Officer - Jedi - Engineer

Morath360
Tue Jun 15, 2004 11:28 am
#20







Ok, not to sound negative, but AdmirlJZ you obviously have not pvped much lately. Remember this guy's template. Master Doc/Master pistol. First on your template you wouldnt last long with your strategy in our area. You would be dizzied and posture changed and you have no combat equilib that I see. You would be on your back until dead. Second, bleeds stack in pve, my understanding is that they do not in pvp. Even if they do, they do so little damage that its a joke. I used torso shot with hs2 and eyeshot with a 440 scatter and and switched to a republic blaster dot health bleed. The guy laughed at me. The only thing it did was blacken hes bar by a little because of torso shot.. You are telling him to pmd1. Are you kidding? If he gets that close as a master doche is going down. You do not even mention intimidate. That is the only saving thing he could use to get away and last a while.


I really appreciate your analysis, but simple is good for a master doc. Good stun helmet, Food to keep him standing up, Thak,Brandy, Canape.and instant dizzy heals to combat posture change and Music and Dance buffs. Take your shots as they come, nothing fancy. If the health bar is down, do not mess with anything but HS2 as it is the highest damage single bar shot he has. If he is helping others then stoping or fan depending on the damage calculater. You are right with the Geo Pistol. Only the uber ones are worth anything. A good dx2 is the best bet imho.


BTW, Here are the templates I have had experience with.. Master Pistol/Smuggler DF/Commando Flame 4/Tka powerboost. This was great once upon a time. Then I went Master Pistol/Master Rifle/Smuggler DF/Tka 4-0-0-3. This was my best pvp template. Now I am BH 0-0-4-0, Master Pistol/ Rifle 0-1-0-0 for the ranged defense. I'm dropping this template and going master marksman/master rifle/master pistol and 0-3-0-0 tka. I will be testing this.


My second character was a master doc/master sword. Awesome pve. Now he is master doc/master cm. I use him to run back to anch and heal my poisons and mind in heavy firefights.


As you can see I do not have a life....lol

Edit: If your talking about the second guy, the prob there is again your trying to use state effects that are ineffective in pvp. The smugglers low blow only works on those with very little defenses. The problem still is that you already do a low amount of damage. If you mess around trying to put state effects on people with low damage moves you waste a ton of time that you do not have and at the same time your getting hit with heavy weaps.


I really apologize if I sound too negative..Im at work right now multitasking, which is tough for my limited brain...lol..


Message Edited by Morath360 on 06-15-2004 11:44 AM



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Confusion12345
Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:35 am
#21

You could drop the master box of pistoleer and pick up carbines 2 and ranged support 4...then try to stick a dizzy and suppression fire and switch to your pistol


I haven't tried it myself yet, but it seems like it could work, assuming you get a dizzy to stick before you croak



-Confusion12345

"The shroud of Confusion has fallen. Begun, the Dumb War has."
-Jedi Master Stupid
Obed
Thu Jun 17, 2004 2:24 pm
#22

get your speed up with attachments. If you can hit stuff at 1 per second with the powerful (but usually slow) attacks, it makes a HUGE difference




Obed T'Bo'Akh / Andreau Tiqaras
"Yeah, what if you fell? Alas for the jigglybits" ~ Sakkra on Male Nude Cycling
admiraljz
Thu Jun 17, 2004 8:07 pm
#23






Confusion12345 wrote:

You could drop the master box of pistoleer and pick up carbines 2 and ranged support 4...then try to stick a dizzy and suppression fire and switch to your pistol


I haven't tried it myself yet, but it seems like it could work, assuming you get a dizzy to stick before you croak







Or you could master pistoleer AND carbineer and have the rough equivalent of Bounty Hunter, but with defenses in place of the Inv line. In fact, there's JUST enough skill points to master all three weapon lines (pistols, carbines, and rifles), but unfortunately not enough to master Marksman as well for the extra accuracy and speed.





Aucka - Eromi - Ecaro
Widowmakers
Test Center
New Aldera, Naboo
Officer - Jedi - Engineer

Confusion12345
Fri Jun 18, 2004 7:13 am
#24






admiraljz wrote:





Confusion12345 wrote:

You could drop the master box of pistoleer and pick up carbines 2 and ranged support 4...then try to stick a dizzy and suppression fire and switch to your pistol


I haven't tried it myself yet, but it seems like it could work, assuming you get a dizzy to stick before you croak







Or you could master pistoleer AND carbineer and have the rough equivalent of Bounty Hunter, but with defenses in place of the Inv line. In fact, there's JUST enough skill points to master all three weapon lines (pistols, carbines, and rifles), but unfortunately not enough to master Marksman as well for the extra accuracy and speed.








Not if you want to keep doctor ^_^



-Confusion12345

"The shroud of Confusion has fallen. Begun, the Dumb War has."
-Jedi Master Stupid
admiraljz
Fri Jun 18, 2004 4:08 pm
#25






Confusion12345 wrote:



Not if you want to keep doctor ^_^






Doh! Pwned





Aucka - Eromi - Ecaro
Widowmakers
Test Center
New Aldera, Naboo
Officer - Jedi - Engineer

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