Pistoleer Archive
Thread: pistoleer, crying agian about bounty hunter
I do like that they increased the HAM and think 100 is more than reasonable. I have no problems with it. It was extremely easy to spam before and everyone fell into it.Now I find I use once or twice a fight, at the most 3 times.
You ask for someone to explain why knocking down someone with the butt of a pistol(about as close as you can come to something like a billy club) would cost less than your fist but then tell them not to use the only basis for comparison that exist at all. If you cant use real life comparisons on this one issue then you are not seeking a answer for your question because you mind wont accept different possiablities. And yes you can do a leg sweep and theoretically exert just as little physical effort as hitting someone with a blunt object. But that is highly debatable as in that it would definetly use alot more muscles and be more cardiovascular intensive. But the knock down isnt a leg sweep so its a moot point.
Actually Nergal my question was "Does the TKA knockdown cost less because it is melee?". In no way did I ask you to give me a real life explanation of why knocking someone down with the butt of a pistolis easierthen a fist. In fact my question was quite rhetorical. The prior poster was arguing that your knockdown should cost less because it had to be used in a certain range unlike a BHs knockdown. I was trying to make the point that a TKA also has the same range penalty with much higher cost.
But if you want to argue real life I will be more then happy to argue it with you. I was, at one point in time, a SC Highway Patrolman. Have you ever held a billy club? I have. My billy club was about 12 inches long with a lead weight on the end of what amounted to a flexible leather stick. I can tell you from real life experience that me hitting someone with the butt of my pistol couldnt even begin to compare to what I could do with a my billy club. So unless you have had similar real life experiences and found different I don't see how you can back up you pistol butt vs billy club statement. This aint the movies. People dont fall downso easily when you hit emwith the butt of a gun.
Now, let's even go further. You want to argue that it should be cheaper because realistically it would be easier to knock someone down with a pistol then a fist, fine. You go out and hit an elephant or a horse with a pistol butt? You think you can knock it down? Well for realism sake then we should change pistol whip so it can not be used on any mob larger then a human. No more pistol whipping Savage Humbabas or War Grondas. You want the cheap cost you pay the price for realism.
And once again I say that 100 HAM is still spamable. I could spam with 83 HAM cost and even your fellow pistoleers are telling me they can still spam it.
So we are back to are original problem. Pistoleers can still spam a knockdown while all other classes with knockdown cannot. If SOE intended to make you guys stronger then all the other combat classes then they succeeded. If they intended to stop the knockdown spam they certainly did not. Open your eyes man. I know some of the bazillion nerf pistoleer post on the carbineer/BH/commando boards are penius envy but they can't all be.Something is inherently wrong with the pistoleer class and hopefully SOE will admit it and fix it.
Chahu Melhar
Intrepid Bounty Hunter
I'm all for TKA knockdown costs going lower, and I don't think anyone here disagrees with that.
What we see is that NO knockdown should be easily spammed with accumulating effects. The simple truth is that all of us were able to spam 10 of our KD moves and get up go to the bathroom before the target could attack again. The KD's are being balanced now, THEY AREN'T YET, but they will change some more for all of us before all is said and done.
Am I the only one that admits that ALL the KD attacks are superpowers in this game? And will ALWAYS be some of the most powerful moves.
What would have been a great equalizer would be this:
1 - Timer to execute KD attacks. Say you could only do it once every 20 seconds, but you could still use other attacks in the meantime.
2 - Increased HAM cost (from pre-patch levels). I went from 39 to 148 with the pistolwhip, and that's FINE BY ME. Disarm2 I don't have, but I don't think that the current AoE knockdown was meant for us. It looks more like the Master Carbineer move to me. Either way, it shouldn't be spammed out like a BodyShot2!
2b - TKA's maybe shouldn't have seen as much as that, they are tanks after all! Maybe theirs should've gone from (using my costs as a basis) 39 - @70.
2c - BH's, with the higher HAM costs of carbines, @170 tops.
Remember how all these moves count as "SPECIAL" moves? None of them were meant to be default attacks, FOR ANY OF US.
I know how HAM cost are calculated Dilune. My problem, as well as many others, is that SOE was attempting to fix the Knockdown spam with this patch. As I have said, and manyothers including pistoleersagree, the pistoleer class can still spam knockdown. Ergo SOE's brilliant knockdown solution does not work. They have just made it easier for the pistoleer to win in both PvE/PvP while increasing the difficulty of the other classes who have knockdown. Once again timer seems to be the logical answer but the devs don't want to implement one for some crazy reason.
Chahu Melhar
Intrepid Bounty Hunter
Whatever Chahu now you are just nit picking the hell out everything as opposed to trying to rationally discuss things.
By your same arguement, everysingle person would have to pay more to knockdown a large creature. It is after all much larger. Everyone was broke when it came to knockdown before the patch. They gave everyone the same precentage upgrade on ham cost and no matter what you say our knockdown should not cost the same as yours when you use a much heavier weapon. If you start taking away every single advantage professions have whether its small or large you eventually end up taking away the disadvantages. So in the end every single combat character is the same exact thing, just thier weapon looks different and they have a different title. What on earth is fun about that?
No where in my post did I say that your knockdown should cost as much as mine. In fact I have said multiple times move the cost back to it's previous values and put a timer on knockdown. Hell, I would even be willing to let them push my cost up to 500 a knockdown if you would take a 250.
SOE did not fix knockdown spam with this patch! You know it, I know it, and the pistoleers out their with balls have even admitted it. Your class is now the only class that can spam knockdown. Once again...if SOE wants you to be able to spam it while no other class can then great! But if they are trying to stop the spam your cost must be increased or they must place a timer on knockdown moves pure and simple.
Chahu Melhar
Intrepid Bounty Hunter
I say it's simple, take away pistoleer's knockdown and take away BH eyeshot since we can't heal mind pool, now no one has an advantage, LOL 
sorry, couldn't resist the joke.
chahu
I've never seen a nerf anybody on the commando boards. They have for to many issues to worry about besides a nerf of another class.
Nah, BH would still have the advantage because of their knockdowns even at the higher cost. If you are gonna take away one knockdown you really need to take them all away. 
Chahu Melhar
Intrepid Bounty Hunter
Hehe...I hear you BigEd. Hopefully the heavy weapon changes they posted will get implemented sooner then later.
Although I use a heavy weapon occassionally (LLC) I can in no way begin to understand the pain that you guys must feel when everyone of your weapons is fubared.
Chahu Melhar
Intrepid Bounty Hunter