Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Pistoleer Accuracy Test vs A Defense Stacker
RylanStorm wrote:I'm not disputing any of what you say Xadius. but I think 67% accuracy with a pistol whilst both are running is pretty damn realistic. To those that don't I think most military types would be amazingly happy with the idea of landing 7 shots in 10 whilst running, aiming at a moving target, whilst under fire.So if you consider that our accuracy is about as high as it's going to get and we miss a few times I'd say that we're the benchmark, not the riflemen and carbineers. When you compare us to other classes our accuracy at ideal range is totally out of whack but only because the other classes are far too accurate whilst running and gunning.They aren't going to make us 90% accurate or higher whilst running, get over it.The accuracy on ranged weapons is fairly accurate also if you ask me. Carbines and Rifles have longer barrells which makes them more accurate. The problem is that the penalties for accuracy whilst running with a rifle aren't high enough.Try running around shooting something with a rifle. They're more front heavy and hitting anything is damn near impossible since if the muzzles drops or raises by an inch the bullet will be wildly off course after it's travelled 15 feet. However from the prone position their would be no comparison. The rifle would be more accurate then a pistol could ever be.So I still maintain our accuracy whilst running is fine. It's the other classes that need balancing to us.You discard reality though as if the idea that this is a game means that reality has no bearing. Get a grip. Where do you think the idea of rifles, carbines and pistols come from?Next week I'll be using your logic to campaign for our class to be able to fly since it's only a game and the week after that I'll be asking for my small house to be able to hold more items then our PA hall since reality really should have no say in that either.
Easy there, get your panties out of a bunch. Randomb did a great job of displaying our accuracy for the masses vs. a typical opponent. His conclusion was that there needs to be changes for us to be viable in PvP, especially versus defense stackers. I agree 100%.
You then said you disagree, and only a fair benchmark would be to compare other classes; to which I posted the accuracy and speed numbers, to show you that we are on the short end of the bat compared to the other classes when accuracy is concerned.
Then, you start talking about real life situations and tell me to get a grip. /sigh
This is a video game, your ideas and philosophy do not apply. What is of interest/concern is how inaccurate/ineffective we are as stand alone pistoleer's in pvp - especially when compared to the other classes.
If the solution is to reduce the other classes to our accuracy level, making dodge stackers even more effective - or if it is to increase our accuracy to the same level as the other ranged profs, that is up to the devs.
The first step, making people aware of the situation, Randomb accomplished very well. I look forward to his efforts to coordinate with the devs on what is to be done on the situation.
Vender: Rielig Steppes Mall, DantooineI guess You can call me a Holo Grinder .... I have mastered Pistoler twice on different accounts and have pretty much played it the most out of all the professions ........... I really think most of the people are selling pistoler short asking for mind shots and crap when all we really need is our specials to work and have our accuracy fixed !!!!!!!!!!!
Does it not occur to the Devs that pistoler has lower accuracy than any combat class in the game except maybe hybrids .......
Do the devs realise that pistoler is a class designed to be stacked with other professions like smuggler but where is the pistol mods ?
105 accuracy while acceptable in pve barely doesnt cut it in pvp ..................................
Give all ranged classes the same accuracy ............ Make the weapons have the accuracy mods dependent on weapon range ........
Nerf the templars .... You know the rifleman whom seem to be the only pvp class out their now or bring us all in line ...........
Why do rifleman have better melee defense and better ranged defense ..................
Pistoler 50 Melee Defense 0 Ranged
Carbine 25 Melee 25 Ranged
Rifle 50 ranged defense
that makes more sense
Give us all 150 Accuracy with master marksman ................................... or add accuracy to smuggler ............. Put speed caps on the weapons ..........
Pistoler 1 shot per second max unless dual wielding slight accuracy penalty 3 shots every two seconds
Carbiner 1 shot per 2 seconds
Rifleman 1 shot every 3 seconds .......
You should of never of added speed mods into the game ............ their needs to be a hard cap on all speed in the game
Stances ............. Rifleman considering they are snipers should not be able to hit crap while running and firing ..........
Rifleman should get a massive bonus to hit while prone ...... medium while kneeling.................... neg while standing
Carbiner should get a medium bonus to accuracy while prone .........medium while kneeling and ano bonus while standing
Pistoler should get no bonus while prone ... small while kneeling and small while standing
excellent work randonb , /bow
if anyone can do this test , a master pistoleer vs master rifleman , ideally both templates should have no other combat skills . both can fire at each other from their respective ideal ranges . for a pistoleer use a rotating macro of healthshot 2 , fanshot and stopping shot ( the only three shots 90% of us would use in pvp ) and record the results . same thing for rifleman using their most commonly used specials ( must use a low damage version of t-21 or jawa or the person being tested on will get incapped :smileyhappy
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oahep acto
Message Edited by gunner4life on 04-23-2004 01:06 AM
RylanStorm wrote:
RandonB,
Personally when I read your post I didn't see anywhere in it's content that you think that 67% accuracy is too low. When I read it I simply saw it as a statistical analysis of the facts as you observed them. Others have jumped on this as if it's conclusive proof that we need to be more accurate, and also that this is what you are advocating. Whilst I understand that you want to try and get us an extra 10 accuracy at master for some people this doesn't seem to be enough. It's as if they want to hit 90% of the time or higher.
Putting aside the other classes for one moment ( which I agree need balancing ) do you personally feel that against a defence stacker we should be hitting more then 2/3rds of the time, whilst both parties are running?
Do you feel that our accuracy needs increasing greatly, or that other classes should be brought in line with us as we currently stand?
And if so, should we be getting an increase in accuracy or should we be getting less of a penalty whilst running?
I know this was for RandonB, but I think the best way to handel this would be to give us 10 or twenty extra accuracy. Accuracy while moving is all well and good, but as rifleman have proven, essentially this is a penalty with no bite if you have a high enough accuracy. Our accuracy is so low, even our own bonus to hit while moving dosent help us in most situations when using most guns.
Personally speaking I would REALLY love to make accuracy heavily conditional. MAke it so a pistoleer can not hit something with any regularity pasted 50m, make it so rifleman can not hit something with any regularity when they are within 25m of a target. Make it so we have next to no accuracy drop when moving, and make it so rifleman takes a sizable hit when they are moving. By making accuracy conditional like this to different weapon classes, while buffing our accuracy by 10 or 20, and leaving everyone elses untouched things will even out.
RylanStorm wrote:
<snip>
The problem is, we need a master rifleman todo a similar test. I have a couple friends who are master rifleman and then hit as often I do when we're both moving, I'm a master pistoleer. I don't know if this is cause by additional rifle range modifier bonuses or not, but something is giving them a better to hit ratio than the your simple summary anaylise suggests.
Seems very fair to me.
It would mean that we'd hit 2/3 of the time against stackers.
Carbineer would hit about 1/2 of the time
and rifles would miss more often then not.
However when they're stood still the rifle is king. As it should be.
Guess what? The combat balance ain't happening. Read:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=GCW&message.id=149810
Strel wrote:
Guess what? The combat balance ain't happening. Read:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=GCW&message.id=149810
Yeah they said that a while ago, its quite sad really. SWG devs have ADD, they will develope a new crafting revamp for 3 months and then suprise us with it just to retract it the day its released. I can't wait to ride my veermock all around town next patch and have a glittery neon vehicle.