Pistoleer Archive

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JawaJoey2 wrote:
^ No, I think 2 handed sweep does something, posture down I think. And all melee classes get some sort of state skill in their bralwer trees. And every novice bralwer even has lunge, a posture down effect, which becomes a knockdown at master. Carbineer's full of status, Riflemen have a few for some reason, we get vanilla damage shots. Hooray......

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Pretty sure swordsman don't have any state effects, we do get a couple posture downs, but no KD.

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O-dog wrote:

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DakOveran wrote:

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O-dog wrote:
I don't think swordsman have any state effects.

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Why would they need state effects anyway? They can deal great amount of damage... Pistol cannot. So if we can't deal good damage, don't have state of effect and riflemen are currently faster than us, what is our role then?...

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well this is a very good point. I was just pointing out that y'all aren't the only ones without any state effects. Thouh I guess swordsman deals a lot more damage than pistoleer by itself.

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yep, I've been a swordman for some months with ranger and I loved it. Must say that it had never been easier to harvest meat with swordman

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O-dog wrote:

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DakOveran wrote:

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O-dog wrote:
I don't think swordsman have any state effects.

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Why would they need state effects anyway? They can deal great amount of damage... Pistol cannot. So if we can't deal good damage, don't have state of effect and riflemen are currently faster than us, what is our role then?...

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well this is a very good point. I was just pointing out that y'all aren't the only ones without any state effects. Thouh I guess swordsman deals a lot more damage than pistoleer by itself.

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swordsmen requires novice brawler which means you have intimidate ( in my opinion one of the best state effects in pvp or pve ).

if we got some equally good state effects in our novice marksmen box you wouldn't hear a peep from us .

saying that is is extremely hard to compare a melle prof vs a ranged proff because you guys have the massive disadvantage of getting kited.

durni slayer 4 4 4 4

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fishbrains wrote:

Please correct me if I am incorrect but why is pistol the only base ranged/melee class that has no state effects? (i.e. dizzy/blind/stun/etc). This seems rahter odd.

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Okay so we don't have many.. in fact we have one to my count.. Pistol Melee Defence 1.. But that is at least one..

And I think we are intended to be the defensive range profession, carbineer is the state effect ranged and Rifle the damage dealer... Though with the state of things this isn't how it has panned out, but I am talking vision here..

Though if our specials actually delivered the right damage to speed then having redundant specials is nothing to moan about, you just get them at different points in the trees... If they were all working correctly we would have:

• 1 Fan AOE Random HAM (Fan Shot)


• 1 Ranged 360 AOE Random HAM (MTPS)


• 1 Point Blank 360 AOE Random HAM (PB Area 2) (Supersedes PB Area 1)


• 1 Ranged Single Target Random HAM Damage (Stopping Shot) (Supersedes Double Tap)


• 1 Point Blank Single Target Random HAM Damage (PB Single 2) (Supersedes PB Single 1)


• 1 Single Target Targeted HAM Damage (Bodyshot 3) (Supersedes BS 1 and 2)


• 1 Single Target Targeted HAM Bleed (Healthshot 2) (Supersedes Healthshot 1)


• 1 Close Range KD (Pistol Melee Defense 2) (Supersedes PMD 1)


• 1 Lair Damage Shot (With anirrelevant name, and an unwantedAOE) (Disarming Shot 2) (supersedes Disarming shot 1)
  

If it wasn't for the fact that all the ranged shots are better at point blank than their point blank counterparts making point blank attacks worthless, that several of these don't deal appropriate amounts of damage over time and that several just don't work or are badly named thats a reasonable spread of specials.

This is assuming of course that: the point blank shots gave huge defence bonuses at point blank while being used, the random ham shots did significantly more damage than targeted ham shots, the targeted ham shot did more damage than the targeted bleed shot, PMD2 did a KD, MTPS actually hit all targets in the AOE consistantly for good damage and disarming shot was re-named Lair Shot.

I seem to have got rather off topic here, but having actually looked through the list at what these specials should be according to what they do (or pretend to do, or their lower level equivelants do), our specials list is quite sensible, no?

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lisasdarren wrote:

(a bunch of stuff)

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what's the point of getting a whole bunch of specials if they are immediately replaced? i want all, if not MOST of my specials to be useful. otherwise, like randon says, we'll end up with our one or two best specials at master and use only those.

we need variety, and "replacement specials" are not the way to do it.

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BZebub wrote:

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lisasdarren wrote:

(a bunch of stuff)

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what's the point of getting a whole bunch of specials if they are immediately replaced? i want all, if not MOST of my specials to be useful. otherwise, like randon says, we'll end up with our one or two best specials at master and use only those.

we need variety, and "replacement specials" are not the way to do it.

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I think you missed my point...

I was saying that if our specials worked (see my previous post) then we do have a good variety, 9 different types of special. So at master we would end up with a choice of 9 specials depending upon the job, not 2.

However when you get more powerful in a game like this previous skills need to become obselete (otherwise they must have been too good to start off with)

e.g. If bodyshot 1 is good enough to want to be used at master then it is too powerful when given to a marksman.

If you play, rather than grind, you would be using the lower level specials for some time, they are not immediatly replaced... That is only a problem because people figure the easiest way to get to master and grind away.

Finally if all20 of our specials had unique effects then so would the specials of everyone else, all combat classes would all be able to do all the status effects, and damage all the pools because otherwise you would run out of options for the specials.

that would be nice

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mafiree wrote:
that would be nice

i really would like a range kd or posture change too

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you mean like what carbineers have?

i'm sorry, i'm all for having better specials/state effects but honestly, we shouldn't aspire to be like other professions...... there should be many things that keep professions unique

rifleman have a ranged death blow, teras kasi artist's have meditation which does a million things, bounty hunters have a bleed and fire and can target any pool with all their seperate specials (all otherprofessions get one specific targetable pool), pistoleers so far have many AOE attacks that damage in cones and circles

we should fix our unique specials, and try and get some more unique specials instead of copying specials from other professions

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Able-kain wrote:
ok, pistoleer... loads of weapons and many types of damage... there is give and take here... you can't have everything. and someones comment about carbineer. lol... talk about a broke proff... gl with that. anyway, it's give and take.

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Loads of weapons, yes. But, the rifleman actually has more types of damage than we do. I worked it out. Riflemen have a weapon in every damage category but blast and restraint. We are lacking blast, restraint and cold (though no one has a restraint damage type, I inclued it here to stave off the inevitable "you forgot restraint" comments). And before you say that we have a blast weapon, I am talking pure pistoleer here--not commando.

The carbineer does have less choices as to damage types, but they have tons of state effect specials. The rifleman's advantage is the sheer amount of damage he can put out. What is our advantage? We get better state defenses at the cost of close to 0 ranged defense, and we can dodge sometimes. Yay.

Now, I don't know if we need a bunch of state effects, as those seem to be the domain of the carbineer. But we need something to make us viable not only in PvP, but against high-end targets.

Message Edited by TheWok on 05-14-2004 03:17 PM

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Kevie wrote:

we should fix our unique specials, and try and get some more unique specials instead of copying specials from other professions

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Our specials aren't that unique. Sure, we have the health-pool shots and bleeds, but everything else is pretty standard.

ok, i accept the fact that master pistoleer is weak compared to the powerhouses. i wasn't trying to say that pistols=uber, i was just saying that from a development point of viewpistols have pros, not just cons. ok, "pure" pistoleer: laughable. no combat class is stand alone... not fencer or rifleman or tk... nothing... every master has it's weakness, i think you should think about why you can have more than one master, and i've never seen a template for pistoleer that didn't call on dirty fighting or bh skills... the fact that the option exists to stack your offense is something that you won't find in the melee classes. get a clue yourself gunner4life

i think each class should be able to target all 3 pools under a called shot move and also have similar state effects. make it strait across the board for all the classes. im sure people in real life can "draw happy faces" on targets with all types of guns be it rifle, pistol or carbine. with this kind of accuracy i dont see why its not a possibility for called shots and state effects by all classes.