Pistoleer Archive
Thread: I've been gone for 6 months, and nothing has been improved???!
Datchery
Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:07 pm
#14
Well lets see, first was what? creatures....as vehicles...then real vehicles...then droids...something came in between i'm sure, but the corvette happened and the geo caves and the death watch bunker....and of course they added jedi....hrm, I dunno doesn't all that content seem different from launch?
Beery
Mon Jun 14, 2004 1:20 pm
#15
"Well lets see, first was what? creatures....as vehicles...then real vehicles...then droids...something came in between i'm sure, but the corvette happened and the geo caves and the death watch bunker....and of course they added jedi....hrm, I dunno doesn't all that content seem different from launch?"
I think you're getting a bit confused. When did I say that nothing had changed in the entire gamesince launch? It looks likeyou're trying to build a straw man byresponding tothethread title without taking into accountany content from the first post, and ignoring the fact that thethread resides in the 'Pistoleer' forum. No post here concerns the game as a whole. Anyway, if you quoted me in context I'd know what it was you disagreed with me about.
As to the implication that creatures, vehicles, etc. are improvements, these are additions, not improvements. Improvements to existing features are needed. New content is fine, but when it's added to a game that has fundamental flaws in terms ofgameplay,no amount of new content helps all that much. Even when JTL comes along, with all its added starships and professions, if 3/4 of my pistoleer skills are useless, I still won't be able to play the game properly.
Message Edited by Beery on 06-14-2004 04:32 PM
Wild__Bill
Mon Jun 14, 2004 2:08 pm
#16
Hahaha!!! Welcome to OUR Hell from day one!
Hiram777 wrote:
Dont moan mate, you could be a bountyhunter who have actualy got worse! As a profession we are so bad now you have to give up master status and start investing it in other skills so you have a "basic" chance of winning a fight, i kid you not!
Wild__Bill
Mon Jun 14, 2004 2:12 pm
#17
Oh they fixed our Dodge animation so it no longer stops us from running away from the ID's when they catch us overt!
Beery wrote:
"Well lets see, first was what? creatures....as vehicles...then real vehicles...then droids...something came in between i'm sure, but the corvette happened and the geo caves and the death watch bunker....and of course they added jedi....hrm, I dunno doesn't all that content seem different from launch?"
I think you're getting a bit confused. When did I say that nothing had changed in the entire gamesince launch? It looks likeyou're trying to build a straw man byresponding tothethread title without taking into accountany content from the first post, and ignoring the fact that thethread resides in the 'Pistoleer' forum. No post here concerns the game as a whole. Anyway, if you quoted me in context I'd know what it was you disagreed with me about.
As to the implication that creatures, vehicles, etc. are improvements, these are additions, not improvements. Improvements to existing features are needed. New content is fine, but when it's added to a game that has fundamental flaws in terms ofgameplay,no amount of new content helps all that much. Even when JTL comes along, with all its added starships and professions, if 3/4 of my pistoleer skills are useless, I still won't be able to play the game properly.
Message Edited by Beery on 06-14-2004 04:32 PM
BZebub
Mon Jun 14, 2004 4:59 pm
#18
Wild__Bill wrote:
Oh they fixed our Dodge animation so it no longer stops us from running away from the ID's when they catch us overt!
as long as you're not using a DH17 pistol, that is. Dodge animation is still broke for that weapon.
Ragemaster9999
Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:55 pm
#19
1 year later and the SWG devs are promising( read,promise, not that promises are broken.....) an upcoming combat revamp that will fix "everything" is inexcusable. Of course, pistoleers arent a priority until after the Jump to Jedi expansion is released, and then there will probably need to be a major jedi revamp because they will be doing too much dmg and yawn im going to sleep.
Beery
Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:26 pm
#20
I simply don't understand why there are Jedi at allin SWG. The game takes place at a time when there are exactly two Jedi - Yoda and Luke Skywalker. Yoda is sitting quietly on Dagobahand Luke isn't even half-trained yet. I mean if they wanted the game to be full of Jedi, why didn't they set the gamebefore the Clone Wars?
I just don't understand the rationale. More to the point, all this Jedi nonsense is delaying the work that should be done to fix the professions that DO belong in the game.
Duedroth
Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:58 pm
#21
Beery wrote:I simply don't understand why there are Jedi at all in SWG. The game takes place at a time when there are exactly two Jedi - Yoda and Luke Skywalker. Yoda is sitting quietly on Dagobah and Luke isn't even half-trained yet. I mean if they wanted the game to be full of Jedi, why didn't they set the game before the Clone Wars?I just don't understand the rationale. More to the point, all this Jedi nonsense is delaying the work that should be done to fix the professions that DO belong in the game.
I read that and was like "na-ah, there were more Jedi ... Obi-Wan, Vader, the Emperor" ... but then i realized you were right LOL
The game takes place between Ep. 4 and 5, or between the first two movies for those who aren't SW fluent. Obi-wan had died by the end of the first film, and Vader and the Emperor aren't Jedi, they are Sith.
Of course, people claim that there were more Jedi running around, but they are wrong. There were more Force-Sensitive people, some of whom had learned to channel the Force, but if there were more Jedi, Yoda would have known. The Jedi were an order, an order in which Yoda was a very important figure. When he told Luke that he and his sister Leia, who didn't even know she was sensitive to the force, were the only remaining hopes, he was basically telling us that after he died, Luke was the ONLY Jedi in the entire galaxy.
This being said, it would sort of make sense to have a few players running around Force-Sensitive, but nobody besides Luke and Yoda should be named as "Jedi" ... and at this point in continuity (not that the devs know the meaning of this word) Luke wasn't even a Jedi yet ... so yeah, i agree.
Oh, and BZebub ... i know TH is just the guy who tells us everything, and I didn't mean to suggest that he's the one who nerfs us or anything, but there was sort've a theme going and I thought it would be funny to add what I did ... didn't mean to upset anyone.
Datchery
Mon Jun 14, 2004 7:16 pm
#22
Yes Beery no matter how much I may make it seem otherwise, I'm not an idiot. What I was saying here is that there's ALOT more to the game than just Pistoleer, the fact of the matter is that the way they are going about fixing bugs is to take time and devote entire patches to singular professions.
As such, they have so far (to my knowledge) focused on: Droid Engineer, Image Designer, Chef, and the upcoming are Squad Leader (combat balance), Jedi, Smuggler, Bounty Hunter.
Beyond just the professions (I'm certain I missed at least one) there have been some quest/dungeon content added + new items etc...basically they 'have' done alot, that's why Pistoleer isn't being fixed yet, because they're working on other things.
To whit, I believe they are trying to fix all the ills of combat professions in general with the combat balance. The DE-10 in itself gives me hope towards this end, because I can see what they are trying to do to make our profession equally balanced with the others. Beyond that...all we can do is try and push for our profession getting its own patch the way the others that have so far did.
Beery
Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:00 pm
#23
"basically they 'have' done alot, that's why Pistoleer isn't being fixed yet, because they're working on other things."
Well it's interesting that they always seem to work to fix the least broken professions (or the most popular leet professions - i.e. BH), and leave the really broken ones until last. I mean the entire pistoleer tree is a joke. The only profession that's in more trouble than pistoleer is dancer, for crying out loud. Neither of those seriously flawedprofessions has been touched. Meanwhile the devs spend months tweaking theperennially-uberBH, creating Jedi that shouldn't exist in the game's time frame, messing with AT-STs (making them alternately uber and nerfed with each passing month) and taking away my character's naturalability to do fitness training and giving it to bloody Image Designers. I mean how ridiculously complex and unrealistic must this game get before they're happy with it? Will they be happy only when no one will understand its workings well enough to play it??? The last straw for me was when they decided to spend time messing with ID for God's sake. What was wrong with ID??? Nothing. Yet we pistoleers have been sitting here with a fatally flawed skill tree for 10 months while some psycho developer decided that image designers needed to take on the role of'human fitness center' - apparently, game characters can't determine for themselves which parts of their body and mind they can strengthen, and how toaccomplish it- they need a specialist plastic surgeon/cosmetician to help them. I mean how asinine can the developersget? Whatfeature will they decide needs to be altered next? Are they going to give Scouts the sole ability tochange acharacter's clothing? Will Teras Kasi Artists be the only profession entrusted with speeder maintenance? I mean when does this nonsense end? When will they finally decide to stop playing silly buggers and get down to fixing the bits of the game that are broken, rather than messing about adding content that shouldn't evenexist and giving certain professions skills they don't need, and which have nothing to do with the profession'sactual job?
It's not as if it needs that much work to get the pistoleerspecials to simplymake sense.Considering the seriousness of the issue - how radicallythe flawsaffect the profession -it should not have been put off for 10 months. There is no excuse for the fact that they've ignored the game's realissues for so long.
Message Edited by Beery on 06-15-2004 12:23 AM
Beery
Mon Jun 14, 2004 9:20 pm
#24
"Of course, people claim that there were more Jedi running around, but they are wrong. There were more Force-Sensitive people, some of whom had learned to channel the Force, but if there were more Jedi, Yoda would have known."
Exactly. But unfortunatelythe developers don't care about that. I would have loved SWG to have been set pre-Clone-Wars. It's my favourite period. But that's not when it's set. Post Episode 6 would have been okay too, with Luke setting up a New Jedi Order. But the game is set during the last years of the Empire. The developers should respect the canon.
Ah well. After the next couple of publishes, with Jedi becoming eveneasier to attain, get ready to see a large minority of players with Jedi characters. It doesn't make sense, but it's gonna happen anyway. All the leets are going to go for it, and they don't give a tuppenny dam about Star Wars or about roleplaying, so the next few months are going to see more Star Wars fans alienated by stupid developer policies and a resulting Star Wars Galaxies game that looks even less like the period it's supposed to represent. This will result in the alienation and demoralizationof the core customer base who are avid Star Wars fans, and after they leave, some other game will come alongwith updated graphics to draw away the leets who don't care what gamethey play (as long as they get to shoot things a lot), and interest in the game will finallydie out. I mean if the developers' desire is to destroy this game, they couldn't do a better job.
Message Edited by Beery on 06-15-2004 12:25 AM
atimes
Tue Jun 15, 2004 1:50 pm
#25
I was actually agreeing with you until you started in on BH's getting all the dev attention. To that I say "pfft whatever"
As to the Jedi question I'll make a long story short.
The devs sat down one day and had a very long discussion about continuity vs fun and basically "fun" won out. They surmised that no matter what they did to keep Jedi rare everyone would still try to do it. They thought hologrinding would turn away people and it didn't. So they said "forget it we'll focus on fun rather than continuity"
That is a very broad summation of what I read in some dev tracker thread some time ago.
I do agree with you though. The games been out nearly a year and it is still in many ways broken. The problem with this game is things break all the time and when they break they stay broken formonths on end. It's got a good foundation but with the way stuff breaks and stays broken, many many play sessions end up being lessons in frustruation far too often. Couple thiswith the fact that they have devoted everything to JTL at the expense of fixing what's currently broken and that does not make for a happy player base.
I don't know why the devs don't fix the pistoleer specials. They fixed the carbineerspecials (most of them anyway)so why not pistoleer?
I do enjoy this game but I said it once and I'll say it again. This game is my first and last SOE product.
Message Edited by atimes on 06-15-2004 04:52 PM
NaKitNa
Tue Jun 15, 2004 9:10 pm
#26
Hiram777 wrote:
Dont moan mate, you could be a bountyhunter who have actualy got worse! As a profession we are so bad now you have to give up master status and start investing it in other skills so you have a "basic" chance of winning a fight, i kid you not!
hehe ... it was BH's dabbling in pistoleer that got FWG5's nerfed due to eyeshot (they were still broke anyhow because they did more damage than a dx2 but without the ap and that was before damage mitigation) We also got our KD neutered, which I had to admit it was a little out fo control, but with our damage a few seconds doesnt give us a chance to do anything. And BH's are still better at pistolsfor spending 56 points on pistols compared to our 92... but I dont think BH's or any class (save for CM) should be nerfed. Any elite combat class at master should be a force to be reconed with and masters in their respective skill. I personally (in this game) consider BH's biggest advantage to be its flexibility. We all need to be stepped up in power when looking at all the super creatures out there... the SBD to be most notably overpowered.
The CB... I think SWG has a lot riding on this. With the other games coming out, if this doesnt bring some reason back to combat I foresee many people leaving for othergames. I do like SWG though it's flawed and hope that they will have to time to make it into the game they promised before everyone leaves.