Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Combat Roles for Pistoleer, Carbineer, and Rifleman, and others
Page 2 of 2
X-Kalibur
Mon Sep 13, 2004 12:12 pm
#14
So... why would a carbine do less damage than a rifle? Save for say maybe the T21 (which should be a commando weapon... it's a light repeating blaster i.e. heavy weapon) all a carbine is is a rifle with the barrel shortened. Now, on a projectile, this would make sense. The rifle barrel is longer and thus has more ability to twist the bullet. Assuming it's a good twist and doesn't slow the bullet. However, we're firing blast of energy (the coherent light is a side effect, the bolt itself is invisible). So, do indulge me again of how a rifle will do more damage than a carbine? Because I'd really, really like to know.
X-Kalibur
Mon Sep 13, 2004 4:42 pm
#15
NarCranor wrote:
Well, its not so much the damage dealing ability of the blaster bolt, or projectile itself, as it is the placement of said projectile or blaster bolt. A rifleman (sniper) should do more damage because their single shots are placed to do maximum damage. A carbineer is simply firing a burst of a few rounsd at his enemy's center mass, which may hit armor, or maybe only half the rounds fired will actually hit the enemy, some may just be glancing blows. A rifleman is probably putting his rounds between armor gaps, and in vulnuerable areas. Personally, I feel the base damage for rifleman should be slightly lower, but it should get a high AP to represent their ability to slip shots into armor gaps.
Yes, however, it's generally easier to kill an enemy poking them full of little holes than making big ones. This is why we use 5.56 and 7.62mm bullets in rifles and carbines. Pistols in general fire larger rounds.
In the old starwars roleplaying game (courtesy of the now dead Westend games, may they rest in peace) the strongest weapons were the heavy blaster pistols. The disadvantage they had was they could only hit up to 50 meters, where a carbine could hit up to 250 meters and a rifle up to 500 meters.
NarCranor
Tue Sep 14, 2004 1:16 pm
#16
Thats not true at all. In WEG, pistols did 4D, heavy blasters did 5d, and most assault rifles (rifles and carbines in this category) generally did 6d, with heavy weapons doing 7d. Yes there were exceptions, but this was the general breakdown among the weapons.
Beyond that, we are speaking primarily of blaster weapons here, not projectiles. The deciding factor on how much damage a blast bolt is going to do, is the energy contained within the bolt, and where you are hit by the bolt. If I take a blaster bolt of any size to the leg, and you take a blaster bolt of any size to the face, who do you think was damaged worse? Thats right, you.
Where that blaster bolt is hitting you is what is going to determine how much damage it should do. Since this game doesnt involve twitch aiming to determine a hit location, I would imagine that a rifleman is in that sniper role from far away, and can place his shots the most accurately, meaning he can aim between chinks in the armor, at eyes, neck, the heart, wherever they are the most vulnerable, reprented by armor piercing (Though I think against vehicles, lairs and emplacements their AP bonus should not count, as destroying these types of targets should be the commando's domain.
Carbineers are firing a small burst of rounds at each target they attack. You don't fire a burst at someone's head, because if you do that, only one round is going to hit their head (if you are lucky) its too small a target. Burst's are fired at center mass (the torso). Now, carbineers should have the second highest BASE damage (behind heavy weapons) But their AP should not be quite as good as riflemen (to basically balance the damage each does, but have them better at doing damage to specific targets).
Beyond that, we are speaking primarily of blaster weapons here, not projectiles. The deciding factor on how much damage a blast bolt is going to do, is the energy contained within the bolt, and where you are hit by the bolt. If I take a blaster bolt of any size to the leg, and you take a blaster bolt of any size to the face, who do you think was damaged worse? Thats right, you.
Where that blaster bolt is hitting you is what is going to determine how much damage it should do. Since this game doesnt involve twitch aiming to determine a hit location, I would imagine that a rifleman is in that sniper role from far away, and can place his shots the most accurately, meaning he can aim between chinks in the armor, at eyes, neck, the heart, wherever they are the most vulnerable, reprented by armor piercing (Though I think against vehicles, lairs and emplacements their AP bonus should not count, as destroying these types of targets should be the commando's domain.
Carbineers are firing a small burst of rounds at each target they attack. You don't fire a burst at someone's head, because if you do that, only one round is going to hit their head (if you are lucky) its too small a target. Burst's are fired at center mass (the torso). Now, carbineers should have the second highest BASE damage (behind heavy weapons) But their AP should not be quite as good as riflemen (to basically balance the damage each does, but have them better at doing damage to specific targets).
Easy-Exanip
Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:39 pm
#20
NarCranor wrote:
Pistoleers: Fast target changing (we should use this to hit for status effects on a large group quickly. We should fire at about the same speed we do now (the fastest) but most of our attacks should animate only showing one blast coming out of our weapon per attack, instead of a volly of 4-5. Our main job in combat should be containment (keeping enemies rooted to a specific spot while our teammates deal the majority of the damage to them). We should deal a medium amount of damage, but be focused on knockdowns, posture changes, and perhaps a shot that slows the speed to walk (or limp). In the case of dual pistols, we really ought to be able to target two separate targets. Perhaps a Control + Tab to select the second target, if we so choose. This would again aid us in our role of dealing status effects to the enemy force.
Carbineers: Carbineers should fire much slower than pistoleers, at least 3 times slower. However, their animation should show many many blaster bolts coming out with each attack. This is what represents their weapons doing much higher damage. Carbineers should have decent accuracy at all ranges, though they should not be as accurate as pistoleers are at 20 meters or less, or as accurate as riflemen are at 40 meters or more. This isnt to say the medium range should be a range they are outstanding at, they should really just be well rounded at all ranges. Their main role in combat should be as a damage dealer, and of all the ranged professions, they should do the second most damage (behind heavy weapons). These guys are the troops.
Ah carbineers allready do all of these things. So really what you are saying is...that you want to be a carbineer.
Pistoleers should be a class that kills "by a thousand cuts". Debuffing shots and short ranged area attacks will make pistoleers unique.
BeWary
Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:51 pm
#21
X-Kalibur wrote:So... why would a carbine do less damage than a rifle? Save for say maybe the T21 (which should be a commando weapon... it's a light repeating blaster i.e. heavy weapon) all a carbine is is a rifle with the barrel shortened. Now, on a projectile, this would make sense. The rifle barrel is longer and thus has more ability to twist the bullet. Assuming it's a good twist and doesn't slow the bullet. However, we're firing blast of energy (the coherent light is a side effect, the bolt itself is invisible). So, do indulge me again of how a rifle will do more damage than a carbine? Because I'd really, really like to know.
Welcome to fantasy. Why would they put an entire class devoted to shortened rifles, used by mounted troops? The carbine actually pre-dates the pistol. It's name is derived from the Carabin, an olde english mounted muskateer. Most folks don't know that tho, so it has less attached "baggage" than a term like "sub-machinegunner" has. Imagine the continuty nuts if there was a class called "sub-machinegunner"
It's simply the middle ground between rifles and pistols. SOE loves 3's, it leads to a more complex dynamic than simply opposing equals. It's not about realism, it's about an enjoyable game.
If you could use any word you want there what would you call the third ranged proff? firearms are essentially rifles, or pistols if you class them by ammo type.
Ternque01
Mon Nov 22, 2004 8:05 am
#22
Carbines and Pistols, I think of them like this.
While a carbine can fire fully automatic, it can only shoot accurately in bursts. A pistol on the other hand is semiautomatic, which while appearing to have a firing rate slower than a carbine, can actually get off more accurate shots in the same amount of time because they have to be used up close.. which makes for hitting a target easy.
At short distances, a pistol user is much agile and responsive enough to maintain a superb aim on a target (not to mention up close). A master pistoleer could land every round on a stationary/unaware target at close distances.
On the other hand, a carbine with a truly faster firing rate will be most at home at mid-range distances. The reason is because carbine rounds are capable of delivering the power over these distances. It is most effective to make use of distance in a ranged fight if you can fire over distance without power loss when your enemy cannot or is melee. Because of this, carbineers would find themselves most at home at medium range distances. Unfortunately, due to recoil, a automatic carbine is most effectively fired in bursts, even at master level.
In my opinion, a pistol and a carbine could land the same amount of rounds on a person in the same amount of time in their natural environments.
Also, it makes little sense from a game balance standpoint to make carbines fire at the same rate as a pistol. You carbineers might feel you have a strong speed argument, but you must responsibly face game balance issues, so please tailor your ideas to that end.
Page 2 of 2