Pistoleer Archive
Thread: In Defense of the Dabbler
I've stated several times that everyone is a dabbler to some level and there's nothing wrong with that. It's the people who abuse their ability to dabble. They generally do this for PvP. They just go high enough in BH for EyeShot, just get Smuggler DF tree, just pickup Pistoleer speed mods, just get 4-4-0-0 in CH so they can whip out their rancor, just get high enough in CM to apply poisons, etc, etc.
That is the problem and it's outside the "spirit" of the game. To counter this the devs are forced to rework or nerf professions. This forces the abusive dabbler to move on to other professions to ruin.
In other words, the dabbler will always have an avenue to explore. They only people who suffer are those who want to be in said professions and take them seriously.
NOTE: I will reemphasize that I am not speaking of all dabblers. Just those who abuse.
There are a million combos and a million ways to play the game. All it takes is imagination. I don't think you can really play the game until you've gone through a few different profs and get a good idea of how things work. I think the best dabbler combo is master gunfighter / expert bh with BH carbine 3. This is a hella tough combo especially against BHs. Why? True bounty hunters have no defense against KD or dizzy, so when the Fire KD hits us all we can do is lay down and take a pummeling of stopping shots. Pretty tough there. And we don't get the KD first usually do to the resists against KD and dizzy these types have. So that's a tough combo for a dabbler. Besides that, this isn't dabbling just getting two profs: Master TKA Master Rifleman. You get all the TKA resists, close range and long range killing. And if you do a dizzy / KD at close range and then strafeshot2 the opponent, whoah boy.
Buta greatdabbler is Master BH combining other skills. I've got carbine 0/1/0/0 and pistol 0/0/0/1, plus novice medic skills. I don't even know how many people I haven't even used BH specials on and still won. Comes down to one attack really, actionshot1 and 2 chained together, then take cover for a couple seconds. If the pistoleer is spamming shots and expects to outlive the bleed, he's wrong. If actionshot2 makes the target kneel and the BH follows with confusion shot (causes dizzy) you might want to stay kneeling - if you stand you'll fall over.
Anyway, there's a trillion things you can do in this game and if anyone's a dabbler, go for it. Just too bad people see 'expert bh' on someone and thinks that person is actually a bounty hunter instead of someone with one line of the BH prof. True BH style is carbine first, pistol and LLC on the side.
-- Ypi
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oblivion3134 wrote:
The thing is that certain dabbling combos (like 2) are horribly overpowered in pvp and therefore make pvping require to be one of these 2 types. I hate dabbling and think anyone who does it or defends it is helping to ruin the already broken pvp system,
Tepor lvuli
Starsider
Quickshot/Rogue/Expert BH
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Ahahaha your afreaking moron. You rant about how you hate dabbling but look at your character... Quickshot/Rogue/Expert BH. You are exactly what youcrt about....you have Dirty Fighting, Pistoleer and Bounty hunter pistol...ahaha.
Inhocmark wrote:Masters should be more proficient yes, but what you do by going all the way up a tree to be a master is you sacrifice a bit of versatility.
Sure Master Pistoleer Guido is going to shoot his Krayt Pistol faster than Dabbler Pistoleer Mario, but because Mario also took Creature Handler, his Greater Sludge Rabbit may be the difference.
But people have hit it on the head in a sense: Why should a dabbler only have to go up 2 steps to get the best attack the tree has to offer?
SoE has started to address this by moving attacks and advantages up the trees of certain professions. Expect to see a lot more of this movement. However, you should not expect them to nerf away all the positives that comes with the Buffet Style Character Creation
Well lets hope that this becomes true. I think we can all agree that "bad dabbling" is when you can take just a few boxes or lines of a profession and recieve greater benefit than if you go all the way with it.
Some classes promote the "good" dabbling, and some the bad- but that is an oversight by the way the Devs set things up. I can take 2 trees of Scout or Medic to recieve some of their powers, but in no way would that let me compete with a master of those professions as other lines are needed in order to fully round out the profession. In cases like Pistoleer, CH, BH, etc they put all of the "good" parts in 1 or 2 lines so that someone who grabs just those few are able to be just as powerful(or even more) than a Master of that profession.
We should all agree that dabbling should add versitility, and not make someone 'better' than the sum of the profession they dabbled in.
I think pistoleer should be next in line for a skill box reorganization, with BH next. Even the way they have it set up now, "pure" pistoleers will usually take the profession 1 line at a time. If you work your way up to Stopping Shot etc, while at the same time gaining speed from combat exp, then getting the remaining lines becomes 5x easier than it was to gain the first one because now you have a lot better special moves to use.
BH's lines, while still possibly needing a re-org, would benefit better by consolodating their exp pools. If someone, say a pistoleer, can get the pistol line in BH by just conintuing to use his pistol- it makes perfect sense to pick it up. If Bounty Hunters gained Bounty Hunter exp for everything they did they would be just like other professions that earn exp in the same way.
I have been thinking about this since I posted yesterday.
The devs had to intend this.. I think this for 2 very good reasons:
1. They allowed u to mix and match, but doing so will cost u alot of points.... They seem to have implemented a system that makes one spend 16 pts on a minor novice and 6 pts on a major one. If u look at the trees they are most expensive from the bottom working to the top. _ points are not a value but lack of them will limit your options.
2. EACH seperate column in all professions has a title at the top. If they planned on one mastering the profession only, why have the numerous titles. If people were to be shunned from dabbling, why have each line contain a title? -For those who say that pistoleers get nerfed because people think they are a pistoleer with the title... who's fault is that? How bout this... if u get killed by a player that is wearing a master gunfighter above his head with Last ditch then u got killed by a Dirty fighting PISTOLEER MASTER. If he has Trickshot above his head.... well like in RL...do not jump to conclusions.
-In this game there is always more than meets the eye... that composite that u think is comparable to your might not be... that G5 he has might be better than yours. Example:
I went to fight a duel with someone who was the same template as me, we were both Dirty fighting pistol masters.... she killed me 5 times in a row.... I knew how she would do it before I got there, I had planned on actually doing it to her. I got snuffed quickly all 5 times. why? Well I had 62% comp and a G5 that did 79-353 1.2 without PU.... she was a perfect lady and had tons of class so we began a dialog.... I wanted to know how she did it. Found out she was wearing 86% comp and had a G5 that did 96-440 1.2 un PU'd. Aint nothing I could have done in a duel I was out geared. My point... even when u take the dabble they can get u in a duel.
Now do not confuse this with the GCW.... they are not related. This was only a duel, and in my opinion they are not related. In RL gunfighters in the west carried pistols because of ease and quickness. when u are sitting in a bar and he calls u out it is hard to grab the rifle leaning against the wall or on the table, bring it to bear and then fire. The guy with the pistol would always get u with minimal agility needed because u had physics and mass working against u. In the conflicts with the native americans and others the military was issued rifles and only a few besides officers were issued pistols. Try to limit yourself to a pistol on a battlefield and u were at a serious disadvantage to the rifle user. I believe alot of people are confusing the 2. a carbineer may not get me in a 1on 1 too easy but if we are both in groups he will mow down my side faster than I can his. This is the same with Commandos.... A commando is too slow most times to compete with the skilled gunslinger in town mono e mono... but on the battlefield in a team he is an artillery God. u will not see us gunslingers take on an AT ST with our pistol unless we are buying time for him to lay into the machine with a Roc L. I think this is what the Devs had intended... it all points to groups. The Mobs Uber Hp's, the drastic differences in weapon speeds and tactics, and the ability to pick up 3 faction pets.
Please... If any Nerf Monkeys are reading this, make sure u know the difference. If u ran into town overt and the 'Dabbler' got u -and it was only him (and maybe a pet), It was a duel....
I think the stacking professions in this game are a balance nightmare, and I want them gone.
But I am not, by any stretch of the imagination, an anti-dabbler.
I am a pistoleer because -I want- to dabble in other professions. I love the ranger tracking line, and the scout terrain line, hunting line, and traps line that I get along with it. The artisan survey line is fun and lucrative. A couple of medic skills are always welcome. I could go on and on. There are so many fun and diverse things to do in this game that it is a shame that we have to spend all our points on combat to be anywhere close to competitive.
I don't want to chase after the unbalanced combo of the moment. I think anyone with an elite combat profession mastered should be competitive in PVP. People who buy truly expensive professions like Bounty Hunter should get an edge, but the main benefit for all of their skill points should be a Bounty Hunter theme set of fun PVE/money making/other skills.
Masters should be more proficient yes, but what you do by going all the way up a tree to be a master is you sacrifice a bit of versatility.
Sure Master Pistoleer Guido is going to shoot his Krayt Pistol faster than Dabbler Pistoleer Mario, but because Mario also took Creature Handler, his Greater Sludge Rabbit may be the difference.
But people have hit it on the head in a sense: Why should a dabbler only have to go up 2 steps to get the best attack the tree has to offer?
SoE has started to address this by moving attacks and advantages up the trees of certain professions. Expect to see a lot more of this movement. However, you should not expect them to nerf away all the positives that comes with the Buffet Style Character Creation
Inhocmark,
I think this is one of the few coherent, well-written and dam-n near straightfoward posts I've read in a while.
The response from the Pistoleer community has been great as well, no flames
I agree whole-heartedly with your view on Dabblers. They should have versatility, not mastery. So here's to the hope that this will pan out in the near future.