Pistoleer Archive

Very preliminary tests for specials, at least it's something we can reference. Please note any corrections in this post and I'll update, probably weekly with corrections and with better test data.

Since test pool was small, anything that is close, is probably equal, would be a good guess:

dmg/action 4.8 5.2 4.0 2.9 2.5
action 31 35 28 35 31
dmg/sec 36.5 59.5 43.8 51.3 40.3 42.1
sec/shot 1.0 2.5 4.2 2.2 2.5 1.8
dmg/shot 38.2 149.9 183.0 112.5 101.0 77.2
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N FS SS DT BS3 BS2

dmg/action 2.9 5.5 4.0 6.7 2.5 2.8 3.4
action 39 31 28 24 31 28 31
dmg/sec 60.6 54.4 47.0 61.3 37.1 32.3 40.1
sec/shot 1.9 3.1 2.4 2.6 2.1 2.4 2.6
dmg/shot 112.9 170.1 112.8 160.7 77.5 78.4 104.1
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PBS2 PBA2 M1 M2HS2 DS1 DS2

Key:

N = normal shot

FS = fan shot (random)

SS = stopping shot (random)

DT = double tap (random)

BS3 = body shot 3 (health)

BS2 = body shot 2 (not pistoleer, health)

PBS2 = point blank single 2 (12m range, random)

PBA2 = point blank area 2 (12m range, AOE random)

M1 = pistol melee defense 1 (7m range, random + knockdown effect)

M2 = pistol melee defense 2 (7m range, random)

HS2 = health shot 2 (health bleed, no initial damage, 20s ticks)

DS1 = disarming shot 1 (random, x2 damage vs lairs)

DS2 = disarmings shot 2 (AOE +knockdown effect)

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Common name reference (The name that appears on the combat window)

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Body Shot 3 Gut Shot
Disarming Shot 1 Disarming Shot
Double Tap Double Tap Shot
Fan Shot Fan Shot
Pistol Melee Defense 1 Pistol Whip
Pistol Melee Defense 2 Pistol Smash
Point Blank Area 2 Hold Out Shot
Point Blank Single 2 Point Blank Shot
Stopping Shot Stopping Shot
Health Shot 2 Sap Blast
Disarming Shot 2 Disarming Blast

Body Shot 2 Chest Shot

Notes:
Tests done usinga CDEF pistol, 17-35 damage, 4.0 speed, 15m ideal range, 13/19/13 HAM cost, ~500/1000 condition. Master Pistoleer with pistol speed +74, and high accuracy (0 misses through all tests, not relevant here).

Delay test: Started stopwatch when damage first appeared on combat window. Stopped at shot 11. Subtracted 1 leaving 10 shots in total time. Did this twice and averaged it (each pair very close)

Damage: Over 20-50 shots, not super but it's a start, I'lladd more shots later for smoothing the #sbetter

Does not take into account "front loaded" damage (first shot beingeffectively 1s delay).

Opponent was unarmored and is a doctor/artisan with pistol3 (other defensive skills not relevant here..he may have1 or 2

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What else needs testing:

More damage data

Test speeds vs different weapon speeds and pistol speeds

test vs armor (to see if any shots confer armor piercing), and make sure damage type remains the same (pistol whip kinetic orby weapon type??)

Test accuracy and defense more (Original dodge tests vs this same guy who shot at me...with pistol 3 on the marksman tree, over 200 shots I did not dodgeonce).

Test Marksman pistol specials to make sure ours compare favorably to them (likebody shot 3 vs body shot 2 showed us.

Test PBAOE2 to make sure it actually hits in an area of effect.

Pistol tests, to make sure AR and damage type is accurate.

what else?
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Possible bugs/questions:

Knockdown delay on opponents next action stacks per hit.

Body shot 3 seems to be as effective or in this test, less effective than body shot 2 in damage

Disarming shot1 - what is this supposed to be doing?

Stopping shot - double tap seems to be more effective over time, looks neat, but delay too high

I love no edit posts :/

This look and format of this will improve a LOT over time. Right now it's just time consuming going from tables to text, etc., and keeping the format legible. I hope it's better than nothing.

Ah this is cool, i was going to start doing this when i had the entire tree. A couple of questions:

1. Where did you get your damage #? The number in your combat chat is not accurate. The accurate number is the one that floats above the monster's head. There are several examples of this. EG your system chat shows you doing 100% damage with an AR 1 weapon to an AR 0 creature when the number that floats above shows 125% damage. The float is correct. EG there are carbine special attacks that always show "1" as the damage dealt while showing large damages in floats. The floats are accurate, since peope kill with these specials and watch HAM bars drop them quickly.

2. Disarming Shot 1 is an anti-lair special. With a 144 max damage pistol ihave done(well rarely) 1200 points of damage to a lair in a single shot, and it's as fast as any special like bodyshot. I assume it will work well against all buildings.

The number that appears over the mob's head may be the actual damage done, but if we're just wanting to see the raw damage from the special attack rather than adding on the modifiers for AR and resists, we should look at the number that appears in the combat window. Unless there's a special attack that increases AR or decreases resists, but I don't think any of them do.

Awesome Jaegan88, I've been awaiting your data. I was compiling some data myself, in terms of damage multipliers. Since your chart doesn't explicitly list those I'll just dump what I've learned so far. Note I'm only 3,2,4,2 so far in Pistoleer.

Special Move (Combat window name): Dmg multiplier, Range, Notes

Pistol Melee Defense 1 (Pistol Whip): 3.0, Range 8m, Knockdown
Pistol Melee Defense 2 (): ?.?
Body Shot 1 (Body Shot): 1.5
Body Shot 2 (Chest Shot): 2.0
Body Shot 3 (Gut Shot): 2.5
Regular shot: 1.5
Any shot while intimidated: <1.0 *that shot's normal damage
Kip Up Shot (Kip-Up Shot): 2.5
Roll Shot: 2.5
Dive Shot: 2.5
Tumble To Standing: 0.0 not an attack
Tumble To Kneeling: 0.0 not an attack
Tumble To Prone: 0.0 not an attack
Disarming Shot 1 (Disarming Shot): 2.0
Disarming Shot 2 (): ?.?
Multi Target Pistol Shot (): ?.?
Double Tap (Double-Tap Shot): 3.0
Stopping Shot: 5.0
Fan Shot: 4.0
Point Blank Single 1 (Point Blank Shot): 1.5, Range 13m
Point Blank Single 2 (Point Blank Blast): 3.0, Range 13m
Point Blank Area 1 (Hold-Out Shot): 1.5, Range 13m, Separate shots to all mobs in your forward FOV
Point Blank Area 2 (): ?.?
Health Shot 1 (Sap Shot): 1.5
Health Shot 2 (Sap Blast): 2.0
Threaten Shot: .25
Warning Shot: .25
Suppression Fire 1 (Covering Fire): 1.5
Overcharge Shot 1(Full Charge Shot): 2.5

Ranges are approximate. I could get some from 1m further than usual but no consistantly.

Some notes I'd add to your data. PBA1 is not really AOE in the usual senseused inother games. In my tests it only affected creatures in my forward arc. So don't stand surrounded by mobs and assume it will hit the ones behind you.

Another observation: There are 6 body parts that can be hit. Left Arm, Right Arm, and Chest affect Health. Left Leg and Right Leg affect Action. Head affects Mind. If each hit strikes a random body part then you have 50% dmg to Health, 33.3% dmg to Action, and 16.6% dmg to Mind. When tracking location hits the numbers come pretty close to these.

Keep up the research.

Dust,

RIght, I included (x2 damage to lairs) in the description of the special, I'll update to have notations better. And you're right, in my older post I actually point out what anyone can do on their own. If you x2 the damage on DS1, you'll see that it becomes the highest DPS vs lairs... I have NO idea if that's intentional or not, so I want to also keep it as a question. The description and name (disarming shot 1) are way off for a "lair special", too much human energy spent wondering about it and questioning it

Prax,

I used another player, that way I can be assured of 0 armor/resists, and will always use the same guy to test out my data. I could probably get/write a parser for the chat log from the person that is "hit" with the attacks, and cross-reference..but I dread doing that any time soon.

Smuggler,

Good, good, I keep forgetting to test hit locations. Super input. We can extrapolate effectivness vs targeted specials using that. Of course, not pistoleer targeted shots..we know those need some help

I keep wondering if I should include marksman skills..I suppose I should since they are part of the pistoleer pre-req...will include.

SmugglerFlux - I believe foot shots do action damage as well, or do the feet never get hit (in which case foot armor is just a waste of HAM).

Jaegen88 - Awesome data! Thank you What stands out to me though are that you said you used a 4.0 speed (delay) pistol, while having a 74 pistol speed skill, and your plain "attack" (first column) data shows 1 shot per second. That doesn't jive with either of the popular guesses as to how / what the pistol speed skill does. It certainly isn't 4.0 - 0.74, and it definitely isn't 4.0 - 37%. It suggests a FLAT percentage - 74% reduction in delay.

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YetiIronfist wrote:

SmugglerFlux - I believe foot shots do action damage as well, or do the feet never get hit (in which case foot armor is just a waste of HAM).

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Hmm, are there hand and foot hits? My gun fires so fast that to roughly test hit location percentages I was just marking down red, green or blue, not specific locations. I'll look more closely.

Foot & leg armor locations are both possible action shot locations.

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dustdoc wrote:
Foot & leg armor locations are both possible action shot locations.

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I didn't see a single foot or hand hitduring the 2 Talus missions I just whipped through. Only had to kill about 10 creatures, so they might be rarer than body/head/arm/leg. I'll keep looking for them. Or perhaps creatures don't have feet or hand locations but humanoids do? I was killing Humbaba and Wolf Kima on those missions. Perhaps Jaegan88 could watch for those hits on his test dummy...

Or if you just mean that your foot armor takes damage, then perhaps 50% of leg hits go to the foot, but it still displays as a + Left Leg Hit +.

PISTOL SPEED

I had this last night, got too tired to post.

This was test data from round 1 compared to round 2 (when I used a faster weapon)

(rounded to tenths)

ROUND1 (Already posted this in that chart)

Pistol Speed = +74
CDEF Speed = 4.0
Normal Attack = 1.0 seconds per shot
Double Tap = 2.2 seconds per shot
Stopping Shot = 4.2 seconds per shot

ROUND2 (I took these last night)

CDEF Speed = 3.1 (Speed power up, same pistol)
Normal Attack = 1.0 seconds per shot
Double Tap = 1.7 seconds per shot
Stopping Shot = 3.2 seconds per shot

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So, from that, we have:

Minimum attack speed = 1.0 second (we knew this from other folks posts)

Attack speed formula:

(WeaponSpeed * SpecialDelayMod) - (WeaponSpeed * SpecialDelayMod) * (PistolSpeed/100)
And if result < 1.0s , result = 1.0s

So using my data:
Stopping Shot:
(4.0 (CDEF speed) * 4.0 (stopping shot delay, see top of chart) ) - (4.0 * 4.0) * (0.74)
16-11.84 = 4.16, rounded to tenths = 4.2 seconds for stopping shot. Which matches my test data.

Double Tap:
(4.0 * 2.1) - (4.0 * 2.1) * (0.74)
8.4-6.22 = 2.18 rounded to tenths = 2.2 seconds for double tap. Which matches my test data.

So predicted speed for stopping shot using a 3.1 CDEF is:
(3.1 * 4.0) - (3.1 * 4.0) * 0.74
12.4 - 9.18 = 3.22s, rounded to nearest tenth = 3.2 seconds (Matches test above)

So predicted speed for double tap using a 3.1 CDEF is:
(3.1 * 2.1) - (3.1 * 2.1) * 0.74
6.51 - 4.81 = 1.69s, rounded to nearest tenth = 1.7 seconds (Matches test above)

More later, for now, that's what I'm seeing. Only thing left I have left to test myself is what happnes when pistol speed >100.It's assumed that it continues to drop that speed until it bumps against the 1.0 second cap. Oh, I tested it on my guy with +20 pistol speed and it came out the same...I'll post that later too for reference.

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Jaegen88 wrote:

(WeaponSpeed * SpecialDelayMod) - (WeaponSpeed * SpecialDelayMod) * (PistolSpeed/100)
And if result < 1.0s , result = 1.0s

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Doesn't this imply that any weapon firedby a player withPistol Speed of 100 will fire at 1s per regular shot no matter how slow the weapon is?

Let X be some weapon delay, and for normal shots Special Delay Mod is 1.0

(X * 1.0) - (X * 1.0) * 100/100 = X- X * 1 = X - X = 0.0

0.0 rounds up to 1.0s. Thus for any X if your pistol speed is 100 you fire at 1s per shot. Is this correct? Or is my math wrong...

Great great stuff Jaegen!

That suggests that with a skill off 100, ANY attack, no matter how slow the weapon, and no matter what special attack is used, will fire once per second.

This means that an 8 second rifle with a damage of 125 - 450 that hits players for 2,000 damage using headshot3 (I think it's HS3 they use?) would fire once a second once that player gets their skill up to 100.

This could be one of the reasons why they have skill enhancement items disabled currently...
(read this post BTW: http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=TestCenter&message.id=6140 )

This reduces the desireability of the BH pistol line BTW, as getting 100 just takes master pistoleer and a few enhancement tapes stuck to your undershirt beneath your armor (or plates in your armor, once the patch on test server goes live, but armor wears out quickly, and clothing doesn't seem to wear at all, and besides - they're all not working right now ) Now if it wasn't for the fact that they have the only ability to target mind pool with a pistol...