Pistoleer Archive

There will be a frenzy of posting next week and I want to make sure we're prepared for combat fixes that will hopefully be coming through next patch. Here's what I have (same list as before..lol, with a a few slight changes and questions)

*general issue not pistoleer issue that I will push - AOE not working properly. If you fire fan shot and it "aggros" mobs but doesnt do damage to all of them, it's a bug. Convince me otherwise. I could understand if it ONLY hit mobs you were in combat with, and you could" add" mobs to the queue by targeting different ones, but I also hear it's aggroing mobs/no damage, which is worthless and is not a feature.

1. Fix Disarming Shot 1 and DIsarming Shot 2 (they do not work!!) and MTPS

2. Increase Body Shot 3 to 3.0x damage (still leave it WORSE than torso shot/eyeshot, but makes it better than body shot 2)

3. Change Stopping to a 3.2 delay so that the DPS is greater than double tap, slightly less then the "old" fan shot (means no real change in power...actually a slight nerf..). I see no reason the devs should not make this change. it also leaves last ditch as the "king" of random HAM, which frankly I never liked pistoleers not being hands down the best, but hey, they DO spend hybrid points to reach it, and dont get modifiers..I suppose something has to be good about it.

Then what's our next priority. I have written down that DX2 fixing is. Here's the push back I get on that issue (from players, not from devs)

DX2 Certificate cost: 35 skill points

Launcher Pistol Certificate cost:112 points

Scatter Pistol Certificate cost: 160 skill points

Why would the DX2 need to be "as good" as the scatter? I 100% agree that pistoleers not having the best pistols as a niche, sucks horribly,makes no sense, and is endless frustration for many. However, we need to figure out how to position this. Maybe a certificate at mastery is the only solution. At least that's 92 vs 112 vs 160, at least that has more justification, coupled with the time it takes to hit mastery as well (time isnt a big factor though..keep that in mind).

After that, I continue to go down the list with things like "Make PMD2 useful..dizzy state, etc.", make PBAOE workand raise point blank range to 24-32m or something so they are "usable" in PvP for those that want good damage but dont want to hit mastery (and are then range limited).

Health shot 2 boost, etc.

Anything else on the "needs fixing" list? Dodge animation stopping I have written down as well once the major things are changed.

pistoleers, not pistoleer's, of course, if we only had an edit button....(random whine #95437 about no edit feature)

k, i'm behind ya all the way on this one,

Push for a definition of our niche in the game. As a matter of fact get one for the rest of the combat classes as well. Once we know what they are looking for in pistoleer we will have a much better idea of where and how to push for things.

Okay, I'm totally thinking that fixing outright broken stuff should still be our top priorities.

That would make Disarm 1 and 2, MTPS, PBA2, and PMD2 the real priorities.

The next priority should be utterly worthless stuff: BS2, PBS1, doubletap (to a much lesser extent).

Then after that, I honestly think the messed up speed formula is the biggest issue, since that's what totally defeats the purpose of having "fast" and "slow" weapons.

Now, I know it's popular to complain about the DX2, but let's face it, it' still a useful weapon.Even though it's kind of weak, it'smore useful that most pistols out there, including the DL44, D18, Power5, Striker, Tangle, and unusable Republic Blaster. If I was to suggest any changes to the DX2, they would be modest:

1. Reduce the number of power handlers required to craft it from 4 to 2. This would make it easier andcheaper to build (but still harder than a scatter or launcer)


2. Adjust accuracy mods so that it's at least>0at the ideal range of 8m.

I don't think arguing for a master-level weapon is a good idea at this time, since that would involve more work, and the developers clearly aren't interested in that.

And finally, regarding Health Shot 2... I agree that it's underpoweredrelative to most other classes' bleeds (except perhaps fencer). But again, personally, I think that most bleeds are overpowered (slightly in PVE, moreso in PVE), this would range from modestly overpowered for pistoleers and carabineers, to utterly insane for commandos. As bad as it sounds, I thin it would be a better solution to see everyone else nerfed

So, in conclusion my own personal list would be:

1. Broken moves


2. Less broken moves


3. speed formula


4. DX2


5. Bleeds

And, if necessary, "broken moves" could be expanded to fill the entire list.

I am a novice pistoleer.

I am also an RPer...so when I decided i wanted to play a "feared gunfighter" I found I had many choices.

Also note that I started this character as a TKA and my absolute favorite line in the entire game is meditation so a goal was to keep that also if not the whole TKA line. Kinda the spiritual gunfighter thing going there (too many Anime and Chow Yun Fat movies for me it seems).

So if I truly wanted to be "feared" i found out that the BH line had to be involved (in general).

This made the whole thing a mess because I really wanted to include pistoleer and it was just wrong in my eyes that the BH was hands down the best pistol user.

I ended up combining Master TKA/Master Pistoleer/?-?-4-0 Smuggler/Novice Medic/3-0-0-0 Scout

One is that I thought I should be a pistoleer...and two dual wielding will come to pistoleers and probably TKA and Fencers also and I love dual wielding (see above material reference.)

Now back on topic. As I stated I am an RPer...and I hate the DX2. Why....because it looks lame. Part of the whole gunfighter/dueler motiff is sweet looking guns that can be twirled and are somewhat elogant even. The DX2 is a lump. Statistically decent to good but comon. The Scatter has cool multi firing and a neat sound. The Launcher looks horrible but makes pretty lights.

I would say the Launcher stays with the Commandos...they get no extra skills with it and it gives HW xp. The Scatter is a tough one. While everyone is concentrating on skill points lets look at actual pistol XP. After all that XP to get to Master why should the Scatter be such a mystery to me? I spent as more XP than a bounty hunter focused soley on the pistol and I have exactly one weapon to choose from whilst they have three. At novice no...at Master yes. In fact I would give the BHs the Launcher at Master or switch the launcher and scatter at Novice. I would also give the Thermal Det cert to the BHs and maybe the GLOP grenade. I think what needs to be done is the strange unique weapons (LLC, Launcher, Scatter, GLOP, Thermal, etc etc) need to go to the BH...as they would be unconventional warriors compared to the more militaristic and standard commando. Wow that was a tangent.

Regardless I would give the Scatter (or a "cool" pistol) to the Pistoleer at Master. Give us something that will look good in our hoslters and when we twirl and dual wield in the future. Might as well start now.

No edit GRR!

How about an FWG6...the 5's older brother. Same basic look...bigger and better though. Like two sleek hand cannons. Slap on AR1 heat damage but keep the same damage.

How about less random HAM speacils and more targeted speacils.

Jaegen,

I agree with your views on DisarmingShot1 and 2, MTPS, BodyShot3, and StoppingShot. For Disarming1/2 and MTPS, I assume you'll be pushing for the same stuff we asked for in the past, which is good in my opinion.

As far as the DX2 issue goes, we don't need it to be as good as a Scatter Pistol. Don't put it in those terms, because I don't care about the Scatter. The issue is just to make it a decent weapon for us to use. I think there are two issues with that. First, fix the accuracy. It's stupid to have the Pistoleer-only pistol be the least accurate pistol in the game. Second, make it require less power handlers. Nearly every other pistol requires one power handler. Why not the DX2? I do think it's stupid that the DX2 requires so many power handlers that we never want to upgrade it with looted parts.

I don't think you want to overload the Devs. Just ask them to fix those specials and to fix the DX2. Be sure to let them know that there ARE other issues, but the most pressing issues are those, so we don't suggest that we have no other problems.

P.S. I really agree with Esehoa that we need more targeted specials. The idea we had for MTPS will help there, as will fixing BodyShot3, but I do think that targeted is the way to go.

Also, remember Holo"s statement about Pistoleers : they don't ask that much so they are overpowered.

So I don't want you to ask for too much but we need to ask them louder. You should resend them those excellent posts describing all of our Specials being totally broken (for the most part) and with precise explanations. Last patch was a slap in our face, really. In pvp we are just moving targets, I harm myself more than my opponent if I use a special.

Something must change.

-We really need useful pvp specials in our master box. Right now the top pvp pistol moves belong to BH(eyeshot) and Smuggler(lowblow,panic). Here's how pvp usually happens:

Bh: spam eyeshots -----------------> dead master pistoleer

Smuggler: runs this macro:

Lowblow: knockdown and delays opponent for 5 seconds

-while opponent down use last ditch,last ditch

-opponent gets up,hit him with panic shot=delays opponent for 10 more seconds

-spam some more last ditch -----------------> dead master pistoleer

Smuggler special moves are very powerful in pvp, you can render your opponent totally helpless for 15 sec out of every 30 seconds. Lowblow and panic shots are on 2 different 30 second timer so you can combine them. It's sad that master pistoleer have to invest heavy skill points and either smuggler or bh since our specials are so weak in pvp.

I agree with everything on that list. Please press for

1. State effects on specials that don't seem to make sense now. I like +Intimidate+ on disarming shots, +Stun+ or a bleed on MTPS, I really like +Dizzy+ on PMD2


2. Press for only one power handler on a DX2. This one limitation alone is what is making a scatter so much better than a DX2. One scatter per krayt tissue versus one scatter per 5 identical tissues. It is idiotic. I don't care if the damage/speed/ham were the same and if this change alone went in.


3. Make sure the designer doesn't forget to add speed and "load balance" the speed better across the stances line. Having 20 speed in master makes the master box very desirable but makes the pistoleer profession weaker. Maybe keep the 20 speed at master and add more speed in stances. Especially if the new pistol speed total allows StoppingShot to finally be more dps than HealthShot 2

My original vote was for:

DA1: SINGLE Intimidate + damage (low chance or short duration intimdate)

DA2: CONE intimidate + damage (better chance or duration intimidate)

MTPS:CONE health targeted or AOE Random HAM

PBAOE2: CONE 24-32m range (from 12m) - makes this a viable random HAM AOE attack, that is reached BEFORE mastery so that non-masters can get a useful AOE attack

Stopping shot damage changed to 6x (leaves last ditch still a better special), or delay changed to 3.2 so that it does less damage than fan shot, but more damage than double tap, OR (and/or) a state effect added to it). Either way, this would put stopping shot basically in between double tap and fan shot, with stopping shot being better if you get a pistol cranked down to 1.2 at mastery stopping shot is better.

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Can I just push to go for this as a package deal? Otherwise, we get screwed up in terms of "balance". However, frankly, I could care less, if people are "happy" that's fine too. But honestly, the above was taken from everyone's input...if I get to one on one with the designer, I need/want a bullet-proof plan.

DINIAN

I like how you snuck in not just "spread speed out", but "add speed and spread out". I might adopt that "accidental" recollection