Pistoleer Archive

1. Putting minimum ranges on all Rifles (20m) and Carbines (10m-55m) that have a CL requirement over 50. Riflemen and Carbineers would then have to switch to a lower certed Rifle or Carb or a Pistol to cover the short range. CL40 rifles and carbs to either stay at 0-65m range or something like 0-45. Short and high range weapons are staggered throught the elite trees to allow grinding. PIstoleers get 65m pistols that are cl40 or lower.


2. Increasing accuracy penalties drastically, with fly text that tells you when you are under accuracy penalty and removing all ranges. (pre-cu system)


3. Capping ranges on specials so that all Elite Pistol specials can only be fired at 0-35m range, all EliteCarbine specials can only be fired at 10-50m range and EliteRiflespecials can only be fired at 20-65m range (this allows pistoleers to shoot point blank with an ALR though).

What I'm looking for is opinions on the current system and any ideas for improving it.

Message Edited by BadgerSmaker on 06-30-2005 11:28 AM

I think that we should be able to shoot faster with less cost. We don't do that much damage so I'm alwase getting way out damaged by a corbineer. Just keep the damage the same but make it faster and less cost.

/first

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scathing wrote:

/first

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Hahaha! I really dont think I'm worthy of "First"!

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BadgerSmaker wrote:

This is a very sensitive issue at the moment so I would appreciate your input.

At the moment, Rifles have no range limitations while PIstols and Carbines do.

Minimum range caps are an extremely unpopular option for Riflemen, but accuracy penalties dont seem technically viable as it would mean a total overhaul of the combat system to put them in.

If Rifles get a min range cap then Carbines may get one too.

Pistoleers and Carbineers are well versed in using Rifles to gain range and wePIstoleers onlylose out on speed and defence mods when wielding a Rifle as most of our accuracy is general.

Riflemen and Carbineers would find themselves pulling a pistol for short range work the same way we pull a carb or rifle for long range.

So, any ideas?

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Short term

1. Increase in ranged defence


2. more damage and lower action costs on some of our specials


3. extend range of pistols to 40m (as carbines have 60 and rifles have 80, 40 m would make more sense than 35)


4. make stoppingshot pistoleer exclusive, to stop it been used to kite us from outside range


5. Increase in damage and a reduction in speed for the DE-10, so when we actually get inrange of a carbineer or rifleman we can make it count.

Long term

A move that allows us to kneel, to increase ranged defence and range to 60m over a short period of time, say 20-30 secs called dead eye or something like that?

As a Pistoleer/Rifleman I've got to add a few things.

The minimum range idea for rifles should never be considered. Go to any dungeon in the game & try and find an area where you are 30-65m from your target. Minimum range wouldn't be a nerf to rifleman, it would destroy the profession entirely if you ever wanted to use rifle in a dungeon.

The main problem seems to stem from non-riflemen using the advanced laser rifle for the full 65m range. There are a few solutions to this:

1. Make the advanced laser rifle a master rifleman weapon, preventing non-riflemen from using it to root at 65m+
2. Add in huge accuracy penalties when using a rifle at close range. This is how it was pre-cu (and yes, you did miss a load with a rifle at clse range)
3. Add massive accuracy penalties when using a weapon class that you're not proficient in. I.e. if I use a carbine with my best carbine specific skills being novice marksman, I shouldn't be able to hit the broadside of a barn, or if I have no rifle skills and use an advanced laser rifle I should face huge problems aiming it.
4. As has been suggested in the rifleman forum, make all level 40+ weapons profession specific. If you're not a master rifleman you wouldn't be able to use an advanced laser rifle. If I remember correctly, the best rifle option at this level would be the Tusken rifle which has something like a 40m max range.

Nerfing rifle range or making stopping shot a pistol only special isn't going to stop people from realising that at least one pistol can fire at 60m+. If rifles get nerfed then people will simply switch to other weapons with the same range.

There's no easy fix for the problem and I doubt that there's 1 single change that could be made that would balance rifles, carbines and pistols.

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DomMantell wrote:
As a Pistoleer/Rifleman I've got to add a few things.

The minimum range idea for rifles should never be considered. Go to any dungeon in the game & try and find an area where you are 30-65m from your target. Minimum range wouldn't be a nerf to rifleman, it would destroy the profession entirely if you ever wanted to use rifle in a dungeon.

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So you would have to use a pistol or carb to shoot under 35m, but you can still useRifle specials... the same as we have to use a rifle for long range.

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BadgerSmaker wrote:

This is a very sensitive issue at the moment so I would appreciate your input.

At the moment, Rifles have no range limitations while PIstols and Carbines do.

Minimum range caps are an extremely unpopular option for Riflemen, but accuracy penalties dont seem technically viable as it would mean a total overhaul of the combat system to put them in.

If Rifles get a min range cap then Carbines may get one too.

Pistoleers and Carbineers are well versed in using Rifles to gain range and wePIstoleers onlylose out on speed and defence mods when wielding a Rifle as most of our accuracy is general.

Riflemen and Carbineers would find themselves pulling a pistol for short range work the same way we pull a carb or rifle for long range.

So, any ideas?

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BadgerSmaker wrote:

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DomMantell wrote:
As a Pistoleer/Rifleman I've got to add a few things.

The minimum range idea for rifles should never be considered. Go to any dungeon in the game & try and find an area where you are 30-65m from your target. Minimum range wouldn't be a nerf to rifleman, it would destroy the profession entirely if you ever wanted to use rifle in a dungeon.

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So you would have to use a pistol or carb to shoot under 35m, but you can still use Rifle specials... the same as we have to use a rifle for long range.

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At least half of all mobs in the game are melee only and virtually ALL of the high end PvE content is melee (ever seen a krayt use a rifle?). Since they have to close to melee range to fight you'd give riflemen 2 options, either get some pistols and probably end up using the pistol for 90% of PvE fights that they have or pick up a special like stopping shot which would lead to more people complaining about roots at rifle ranges.

Most of the problems don't stem from riflemen using pistoleer specials, they come from BH/pistoleers using rifles to attack jedi at range with roots to keep them immobile. If the non-rifleman professions had accuracy penalties when using a rifle or couldn't equip a master level rifle the problem would vanish pretty fast.

I really like the idea of placing a minimum distance cap on rifles and carbines. Like you said, we have to pull a carb or a rifle if we want to shoot over 35m. Why shouldn't they be forced to pull a pistol if they're under say 15-20? To me this sounds much more "balanced" than the current situation. Every profession gets general ranged accuracy and speed mods now, so this should not bethat big of anissue. Either we do something like this or go back to a system where all ranged weapons can hit from 0-65m, but get damage/accuracy bonuses if they're in a particular range.

I can understand Riflemen crying "Nerf!" I would be upset too, but I think that this would balance the game out better and give each profession a niche in the universe. Isn't that what the CU was supposed to do? Instead of having 1 or 2 FOTM, have a system of equally important but different professions to accomodate grouping and interaction among players?

I say either you pull a pistol out when a mob gets within 15m of you, or you have a pistoleer with you to help with the crowd control.

BTW: If a rifleman can root you with stopping shot, that means that they have some pistoleer. Why not force them to use it for more than just the special?

That's just my 2 cents.

How close you are to your target is much harder to control then how far away you are from a target. I know that doesn't really make sense in theory, but in practice it really turns out that way, especially with melee professions and jedi in the game. So I would not support a minimum range cap, but instead a huge accuracy penalty like pre-cu.

Range is really the only thing that defines the proffession. If you are in close range you should have to pull a pistol in the mid range you should be able to use a carbine and at long range get that rifle. Pistoleers are currently limited to 35m or less. Carbineers are limeted as well but I don't know their maximum range. Riflemen are not limited at all.

There are situations that require long range and situations that require close range. Pistols should be used in close range, rifles should be used in long range and never the two should meet. Extending the range of pistols would whitwash all of the diversity of the proffessions. Limiting the range of riflemen would force a choice and I think that is the better option. Lose some damage, gain some speed, dps is irrelavent accuracy is diminished outside of your area of specialization but that should be the case anyway.

The response I recieved from the rifleman community regarding my long range options was "pull a rifle". It makes sense. The response I would give to the rifleman community regarding thier short range options would be "pull a pistol". It also makes sense.

1) SPEED! Our speed sucks, simple as that.

2) reduce our encumbrance for carrying a pistol (I mean, a pistol slowing me down? That's sad) This will let us close the gap quicker. Speaking of closing the gap....

3) Give us a bump in defense against roots - I mean, why should a rifleman get to hit me with my own special then pummel me to death? Not talking invulnerable to them, that would be lame, but just a bit more defense from it.