Pistoleer Archive
Thread: Ranged/Melee Defense
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Johnny-Deschain
Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:16 pm
#2
Can someone please explain this to me...
A rifleman will have, at best, 2 or 3 shots before he/she is noticed in a prone position and attacked in a 1 vs. 1 scenario, whether it be PvP or PvE. At this time he will have to face a target who is on the move and most likely coming towards him. The rifleman tree grants a +70 ranged defense mod and also a high melee defense mod. (I am not sure offhand what the melee defense mod is). The pistoleer has much greater mobility in a firing position, given the size and speed of the weapon, as opposed to a man with a rifle. (Yes you can throw the fistful of dollars quote in here =)). Tell me, then, why the ranged defense for a rifleman is so high while the pistoleer ranged defense caps at 22?
In a melee situation, a long range rifleman should be no match for a TKA or an enemy with brawling skills. A pistoleer, given their speed and shorter weapon reach, should be able to deter some of this melee attack. Tell me then, why the melee defenses for pistoleer and rifleman are comparable?
*** Some may argue that the pistoleer makes up for the lack of ranged and melee defenses by having a high "dodge" mod. But keep in mind that the dodge mod is a secondary defense mod, meaning it kicks in only after the enemy gets through the primary melee and ranged defense mods. Also, rifleman also has a high secondary stat in "block".
BZebub
Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:43 pm
#3
actually, riflemen can attack forever, with Conceal Shot, and never be noticed..
as far as the issues...
*pulls ripcord*
The Dev says, "Its coming in the Combat Balance."
Kevie
Thu Jun 03, 2004 7:59 pm
#4
just a few clarifications
pistoleers get 7 ranged defense (5 at master pistoleer, 2 at marksman pistols IV)
our ranged defense does not cap at 22, it caps at 125 like everyone else
although i totally agree with you about pistoleers not having as much defenses as other professions, here's a quick recap on dodge, block, and counterattack
counterattack is bugged and doesn't work (or rather, doesn't actually do what it's supposed to do)
dodge evades an attack altogether (pistoleers get 105 dodge)
block only reduces damage by half (rifleman only get 80 block)
but i do TOTALLY agree with you...... since pistoleers are really lacking damage-wise, we should be more than just comparable when it comes to defenses
Message Edited by Kevie on 06-03-2004 11:00 PM
Rathask
Thu Jun 03, 2004 10:15 pm
#5
-shamelessly plugs his "Pistoleers and the Combat Balance" (i.e. "Fix Pistoleer") post for comments about this issue, along with others-
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=pistoleer&message.id=51881
Johnny-Deschain
Fri Jun 04, 2004 10:53 am
#6
Kevie wrote:
just a few clarifications
pistoleers get 7 ranged defense (5 at master pistoleer, 2 at marksman pistols IV)
our ranged defense does not cap at 22, it caps at 125 like everyone else
although i totally agree with you about pistoleers not having as much defenses as other professions, here's a quick recap on dodge, block, and counterattack
counterattack is bugged and doesn't work (or rather, doesn't actually do what it's supposed to do)
dodge evades an attack altogether (pistoleers get 105 dodge)
block only reduces damage by half (rifleman only get 80 block)
but i do TOTALLY agree with you...... since pistoleers are really lacking damage-wise, we should be more than just comparable when it comes to defenses
Message Edited by Kevie on 06-03-2004 11:00 PM
My apologies, I should have stated that I also have master marksman to get ranged defense at 22. And thank you for the clear up on the secondary defense mods.
Squidwalker
Sat Jun 05, 2004 3:03 pm
#7
Even worse then that, a TKM has both higher ranged and melee defences then master pistoleer. This is why pistoleer is so out of balance with all other straight up combat professions. Our speed/dmg output doesn't matter. Master rifleman can shoot specials at the speed cap just as we doing 4-5x the damage. Just about all other straight up combat professions have higher defences then we do. Not to mention the rifleman, not sure of others, has a greater accuracy modifier then us.
It's all messed up, and I pray they fix it all with the CB.
Kevie
Sat Jun 05, 2004 5:09 pm
#8
Johnny-Deschain wrote:
My apologies, I should have stated that I also have master marksman to get ranged defense at 22. And thank you for the clear up on the secondary defense mods.
lol well that makes sense
and no worries..... by design, pistoleers DO have more defense, just the follow through wasn't as great
JawaJoey2
Sun Jun 06, 2004 3:03 pm
#9
I think the melee : ranged defense ration should be inverse for rifles and pistols, like rifle gets 40:70, and pistols gets 70:40, and carbines gets 55:55 or something. But as it is now, it is out of balance. Rifles get 40:70, pistols get 45:7. Yeah, that makes sense. And Carbines get 0:27. Ouch. Pistoleers do get dodge, which is better than block and get more of it, but I don't think that fully makes up for it. If they stick an intimidate than dodge doesn't happen and you're screwed. And there is simply no reason for defenses to be unbalanced like that. Plus, keep in mind that people are petitioning to make block equal with dodge, mainly the pikeman community.
BZebub
Sun Jun 06, 2004 5:22 pm
#10
JawaJoey2 wrote:
Plus, keep in mind that people are petitioning to make block equal with dodge, mainly the pikeman community.
i wouldn't have a big problem if they were the same, but i also think there's a better,more creative solution to it than that...otherwise we might as well call them all the same thing.
Badrunner
Fri Mar 11, 2005 4:09 am
#11
I currently have master rifles and tk 4101. My plan was to go 4304 with tk, as this gets melee mitigation 2 and massive ranged/melee defense. The problem is i cant find info on exactly how good having high ranged/melee defnese will be (for pve) as i dont know how it works. Is it worth spending a fortune in combat xp to get it, or would i be better off investing those skill points somewhere else?
Thanks
Thanks
Ackehece
Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:24 am
#12
They are modifiers to an opponants chance of hitting you. As I understand it, all your defenses are applied in a certain order, ie: Ranged/Melee Defense, Dodge/Counterattack/Block, Ranged/Melee Damage Mitigation, Armour. If a shot gets through one defense, the next in the line is applied by the server, this determines whether you are hit, and if you are, for how much damage.
all skill based defences cap at 125
mitigations cap at 20%/40%/60%of the difference between the max and the min damage of a weapon - culled from the top.
ranged/melee defence and dodge/counter/block caps can be exceeded with food and in some cases with being lead by a SL
Ackehece
Fri Mar 11, 2005 7:29 am
#13
that is : ranged and melee defence add significantly to all your defence ability - with high ranged defence you are hit much less often and same with melee defence. In PvP highly accurate attackers mitigate much of the advantages but in pve high ranged and melee defence = much easier to hunt.
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