Pistoleer Archive
Thread: How did you imagine Pistoleer (more importantly, most of the classes?)
Page 1 of 2
AronoBashkar
Fri Nov 19, 2004 10:45 pm
#1
I cared little for Melee. But, when it came to ranged..
I imagined the Rifleman as the slow, but steady sniper. Making surgical hits albiet at a slow rate, and usually prone.
I imagined the carbineer as a mid-range supression fire psycho. Laying down cover fire constantly, probably the fastest of the ranged classes.
I imagined pistoleer as the melee ranged class. Nice and close, using unorthodox techniques (flips, kicks, pistolwhips, rolling and dodging) in an eerie reminisicent of something Matrix-Calibre.
Sadly, barely any of these actually existed..
I imagined the Rifleman as the slow, but steady sniper. Making surgical hits albiet at a slow rate, and usually prone.
I imagined the carbineer as a mid-range supression fire psycho. Laying down cover fire constantly, probably the fastest of the ranged classes.
I imagined pistoleer as the melee ranged class. Nice and close, using unorthodox techniques (flips, kicks, pistolwhips, rolling and dodging) in an eerie reminisicent of something Matrix-Calibre.
Sadly, barely any of these actually existed..
lavosslayer
Sat Nov 20, 2004 7:44 am
#2
I have to agree with you on this one...I think the way you described each is virtually identical to the way I thought they should be.
LordMaxx
Sat Nov 20, 2004 9:17 am
#3
I agree with rifleman...carbineer I saw as the mid speed mid damage crowd conroller and pistoleer I thought of deadly up close High speed, low damage, using tactics and abilties and speed to make up for our lack of damage...I hope the CU brings that about.
Ternque01
Sat Nov 20, 2004 11:40 am
#4
I agree with everything but the statement that carbines should be faster. While carbine weapons might have the capability to fire fully automatic, at the range they are most useful at you will have to fire in bursts to land shots, making them slightly slower than a pistol.
While people think of pistols as semi-automatic, when you are up close you can fire off quite quickly with little regard on how accurate your shots land. You might be firing slower than the automatic rate of a carbine, but you do not have to pause to reaim due to recoil.
That is why I believe pistols should have a faster rating than carbines. Of course the speed of pistols is offset by their low power and poor range.
WillburWright
Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:05 pm
#5
Okay: Here's my system: 3 is best, 1 is worst.
Acc Speed Damage
Rifleman (Snipers): 3.5 1 3 Notes: .5 bonus when prone, .25 acc while moving. Standing 1, kneeling 2. These guys are the snipers.
Carbineer(Troops) 2 3 1.5Notes: Big time mobile fighter. High speed; These guys are the troops.
Pistoleer(Gunslinger)2.5 2.5 2.5Notes: Most versitile. Mobile threat. Because pf this versitility, most citizens use pistols because of their size, and their power.
I see Pistoleer as the Indiana Jones, James Bond, Han Solo, of the game. The Carbineers are the soldiers, riflemen the snipers.
Ternque01
Sat Nov 20, 2004 12:26 pm
#6
Yea, I like your vision Willbur. The only thing that gets me is that in real combat, a pistoleer has no place on a battlefield. Hell, even in SW combat I see a person with a pistol as dead.
Pistols seems more of a one-on-one kind of weapon. It seems well suited to small fights (smuggler encounters), assassinations (BH), and general self protection.
I don't want to go off the gay end here, but I feel that politicians, crafters, and businesspersons should have an incentive or bonus to using a pistol. This period of Star Wars was a dangerous time for any person, and being armed was a necessity in some areas. Considering the political turmoil at the time, a politician or business leader would be packing a pistol. This needs to be reflected in the game as well.
Oh crap! I just noticed that you just said the same thing in your notes next to Pistoleer in your post. Haha, my eye skipped it when I read it. But I do concur! I feel most ordinary citizens should already be granted pistol skills with their profession.. not much, but some.
Cran
Sat Nov 20, 2004 3:46 pm
#7
I imagined the Riflemen as the slow, but accurate heavy damage dealers for taking out big scary things.
Carbineers I imagined as shooting really fast, missing alot, but putting down whatever they shot at.
Pistoleers I imagined as shooting fairly slow, but hitting the most and generally being cool.
WillburWright
Sun Nov 21, 2004 5:36 pm
#8
Ternque01 wrote:
Yea, I like your vision Willbur. The only thing that gets me is that in real combat, a pistoleer has no place on a battlefield. Hell, even in SW combat I see a person with a pistol as dead.
Pistols seems more of a one-on-one kind of weapon. It seems well suited to small fights (smuggler encounters), assassinations (BH), and general self protection.
I don't want to go off the gay end here, but I feel that politicians, crafters, and businesspersons should have an incentive or bonus to using a pistol. This period of Star Wars was a dangerous time for any person, and being armed was a necessity in some areas. Considering the political turmoil at the time, a politician or business leader would be packing a pistol. This needs to be reflected in the game as well.
Oh crap! I just noticed that you just said the same thing in your notes next to Pistoleer in your post. Haha, my eye skipped it when I read it. But I do concur! I feel most ordinary citizens should already be granted pistol skills with their profession.. not much, but some.
That's how I kinda see it. Pistoleer shouldn't be the main force, I believe that's the Carbineer's job. But, Pistoleers still should be deadly. Pistoleers should be able to take the playing field to their advantage.
starcrusher04
Tue Nov 23, 2004 2:07 pm
#9
I completely agree.
Where do you see pistoleers in the SW movies? In the cantina in Mos Eisley, in the bunker on Endor, in the forest chase scene on Endor.
you don't see pistols in big battles. That's the reality of it. Pistoleers should be the optimal indoor fighting profession. The people you leave inside your Factional Base in the stairways to ambush carbineers/melee fighters during a big battle. (Cough.)
BadgerSmaker
Wed Nov 24, 2004 6:28 am
#10
Not sure if I imagined a lot about the professions, but I remember starting out as a Novice Marksman and trying Pistols, Carbines and Rifles to find which one I liked better.
I came to SWG after three years of UO, where my main character was an Archer/Mage who suffered from shooting really slowly, so I wanted a skill that would fire fast.
Had I chosen Rifles I could have been speedcapped at Master, but no... I chose Pistols as they seemed infinitately quicker at the time.
Oh if I only knew then what I know now. 
But then I suppose I would have become just another FOTM template along with the rest of em.
Then I threw CM on as the idea of poisoning people appealed to me as I also had a red Nox Mage in UO.
I suppose I imagined that I would be able to shoot fast and poison like crazy, I suppose I was right really... this template has kept me in good nick for a year now.
In the early days of SWG, my guildmates used to tease me that I'd lucked out and randlomy picked two useful professions, unlike another guildy who chose carbineer/droid engineer (which at the time was awful).
Gooney
Wed Nov 24, 2004 7:53 am
#11
This is a good question as it gets more or less to our perception of what SWG should be like. Not what it is or what the devs vision is, which is pretty general...just look up the 3 elite marksman descriptions in the online manual.
SWG Manual synapsis.
Pistoleer...someone goodwith pistols
Carbineer...someone good with carbines
Rifleman...someone good with rifles
Leaves a lot of fuzzy area doesnt it?
Pistoleer: I envision as a gunslinger, deadly with his side arm at close range, say 15m or so. The pistoleer should be able to fire rapidly and move quickly. No one is more accurate than a pistoleer at his optimal range. Pistoleer should suffer accuracy penalties at ranges greater than 15 meters. (Actually Id say over 10 meters while on the move)
Carbineer: I envision as an assault trooper, rapid firing suppression specialist. (Read as state setter). The assault trooper is good at "filling the air with lead", relying on volume of shot rather than accuracy. He excels at ranges 15m and greater, but can still hold his own at shorter ranges but with accuracy penalties.
Rifleman: I envision the rifleman as a hard hitting slow firing damage dealer. Or as a hunter/sniper concealing his presence until he is ready to fire. The riflemans strength is distance and heavy damage at distance. While fighting is possible at shorter ranges he will have significant difficulty hitting fast moving targets at close range. Everyone likes to classify the Rifleman as a Sniper...strictly speaking this is impossible in SWG, a point that the Rifleman Corespondant is quick to point out.
Heres an interesting thread having to do with rifleman/carb/pistoleer speed and balance:
http://forums.station.sony.com/swg/board/message?board.id=rifleman&message.id=82074
Rolls:
The pistoleer roll is similar to that of a melee player with the advantage of movement...disadvantage when related to melee is lower damage.
Carbineer roll is to set states on enemies, while steadily adding damage.
Riflemans roll is main damage dealer. If the other two types can hold the enemy at bay then the heavy damage of the rifleman will win the day.
Now these rolls are very general. Theres a couple ways to approach the three. Each one has a certain following (player fans) that is attracted primarily to the weapon type used...some folks like pistols, some rifles, etc. Other players are interested in specific specials, or how the profession will compliment another profession. Some take them for role playing reasons.
Some take them simply because when all is said and done one or the other is superior in raw damage output. This is how it is now, and this is why everyone and their brother is a rifleman.
For CU the emphasis should be placed on defining player Rolls. This is of course very hard to achieve in a Skill based game.
Anyhow this got too long.
-Gooney
Message Edited by Gooney on 11-24-2004 04:58 PM
Marvin5
Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:25 am
#12
Gooney wrote:
Some take them simply because when all is said and done one or the other is superior in raw damage output. This is how it is now, and this is why everyone and their brother is a rifleman.
Good post, but im a Pistoleer, and my brother is a Carbineer....
Anyways.. the vision of pistoleer:
The gunman: Twin guns blazing with high accuracy at shorter ranges, riddling opponent with holes, a pistoleer is the one close combat types fear as they are forced to fight withinthe gunmansoptimal range of fire.
For some cool pistol action, watch the movie Equilibrium...thats a Pistoleer/TKA!
/Benah
Joukahainen
Wed Nov 24, 2004 9:48 am
#13
I was once a pistoleer/CH and have an example of what's wrong with the pistoleer profession...
I once dueled a rifleman. He told me that he wanted to start at a reasonable distance. I agreed if I could use a pet as well. He said that was ok. Since it was part of my template. So, once the duel started I immediately sent my BE made level 50 or so cat after him and ran straight for him. My dodge worked pretty well and allowed me to close the distance VERY quickly. Obviously my cat beat me to him and was already chewing on him when I arrived to pistol whip him to the ground. Once on the ground I thought I would hit him with a stopping shot or too since that attack seemed to do the most damage at the time. After spamming him with a couple stopping shots he stood up and one shot killed me with a head shot. After which he turned and killed my pet.
This goes to show:
1) Pets are worthless for PvP and are a minor annoyance at best.
2) Pistoleers do not fill the role they should.
If a pistoleer get within point blank range of a rifleman with out being damaged he should smoke that rifleman. Obviously I'm talking about both combatants having equal skills. The sad fact is that my pet should have given me an unfair advantage. Rifleman should get huge penalties for moving while shooting and close range shooting. I think they should also get penalized even if they are targeting someone at 50 meters if there is a melee person attacking them at point blank range. They are the opposite of a pistoleer. Now if the battle were to start at 70 meters obviously the rifleman should waste the pistoleer.
I once dueled a rifleman. He told me that he wanted to start at a reasonable distance. I agreed if I could use a pet as well. He said that was ok. Since it was part of my template. So, once the duel started I immediately sent my BE made level 50 or so cat after him and ran straight for him. My dodge worked pretty well and allowed me to close the distance VERY quickly. Obviously my cat beat me to him and was already chewing on him when I arrived to pistol whip him to the ground. Once on the ground I thought I would hit him with a stopping shot or too since that attack seemed to do the most damage at the time. After spamming him with a couple stopping shots he stood up and one shot killed me with a head shot. After which he turned and killed my pet.
This goes to show:
1) Pets are worthless for PvP and are a minor annoyance at best.
2) Pistoleers do not fill the role they should.
If a pistoleer get within point blank range of a rifleman with out being damaged he should smoke that rifleman. Obviously I'm talking about both combatants having equal skills. The sad fact is that my pet should have given me an unfair advantage. Rifleman should get huge penalties for moving while shooting and close range shooting. I think they should also get penalized even if they are targeting someone at 50 meters if there is a melee person attacking them at point blank range. They are the opposite of a pistoleer. Now if the battle were to start at 70 meters obviously the rifleman should waste the pistoleer.
Message Edited by Joukahainen on 11-24-2004 09:50 AM
Page 1 of 2