Pilot Archive

Seen some posts in the last few days about the ol' invincibility bug from early JTL popping back up, and today I had someone offer to show me a fraps of it affecting his targets. This is a rather nasty bug where enemy ships will only take damage from specific angles, so I'd like to get a report on it over to the devs ASAP.

Unfortunately, while I remember running into this bug in my starting days, I don't really remember any of the details on it. I'll do some research on it tomorrow (if necessary), but in the meantime, I could use the following information:

1) If you've run into a situation where you're clearly shooting an enemy ship but it takes little to no damage, I need every piece of possibly relevant info you've got--what you were shooting, what you were flying, what mission you were on, whether it affected every ship in the mission/spawn or just some, if you were able to identify certain angles it would take damage from, etc. Basically, anything that could possibly be useful in identifying a pattern.

2) If you're an old timer who remembers the specifics of the invincibility bug, please give me a rundown and/or link me to old posts on the subject. If you already know the info or can find it easily, it'll allow me to get an update in to the devs that much faster.

Thanks guys.

I can't be too specific to be honest as I wasn't fully aware of the problem first time around so didn't think to note it properly when i think ithappened to me yesterday.

The only details i can remember was that I was flying the first mission for the Smugglers Alliance in which you get from Talon Karde himself. It was in lok and i think it was Black Sun tier 1 and 2 ships (I am not 100% sure whether it wasonly heppening with the tier 2's but it may have been) Twice I remember it happening as I fired to the leftand at a slight downward angle (as you look from my cockpit). It certainly didnt happen with every ship on the mission. When itdid eachshot seemed to make little or no impact to there shields (I had hit them four or five times minimum with very very little or no impact)

Thats about all I can remember but I thought I would get it started. Once again sorry i couldnt be more specific and I hope this of at least a little use.

Edit: I was flying the Dunelizard at the time (Style Two Chasis)

Message Edited by Bacajow on 06-27-2005 01:42 PM

Message Edited by Bacajow on 06-27-2005 02:05 PM

---

TomoRainer wrote:
Basically, anything that could possibly be useful in identifying a pattern.


Thanks guys.

---

That includes the time, including timezone.

Personally I think that with lot's of fresh blood in JTL with RotW and summer holidays starting in the western world it's just plain lag/server lag. But I'll keep an eye out in-game.

I have run into this bug once or twice, but cant reproduce it on demand.

What I can reproduce on demand is when you disable a ship, for 5 seconds it becomes invincible then will usually start taking damage again. Sometimes it will cease to take damage ever again, the later is hard to reproduce, when that case happens I just wait for the system to blow them up.

I know its not server lag, as when that happens you normally get the "bumble bee" ship which happens alot in Kash space far too much for it to be enjoyable.

I have run into this bug today both in space AND on land. I had to fly away and come back before I could damage a tier3 ship. On Dant. I could not damage or be damaged by a lair of Bol's unless I pulled them 64m from the lair

Yeah, i've seen this one back. Naboo space, Tier 1 droid fighters. I was in an X-Wing outfitted with three Type II Mining Lasers hittingthe Carbonaceous asteroid nearest the Naboo station, so my firepower wasn't spectacular. I would broadside them with shots that would have no effect.

As far as I remember, there was a "middle ring" where shots had no effect, the enemy ships were taking damage from front and back, but if you hit them in the middle they did not take damage. I do think Iit happens still, but I did not really pay atention - I usually hit the front or back arc with the next shots anyway.

There are 2 things happening here that people keep thinking are the same thing....aside from an occasionalglitch and yes lag is a factor, but not one I will address, they are the following.

1) I have read and seen MP pilots us the "middle ring" to their advantage in PVE and PVP as well because the situation happens to our own craft as well. The difference is that most NPC ships don't hit the middle of our craft but rather the front or rear. This does happen, but is actually the least common of the 2 main issues when the Inv bug is claimed to have happened. The middle ring is the half mark on a ship where the 2 sheild zones overlap and the game doesn;t know where to place the shot.

2) This next situation is the one that happens most times, and also explainsthe sudden appearance of the Inv bug when the ship is disabled and being shot at. Sheild power on NPCs are displayed in a single 100% stat. This is a stat used to display differrent info on different ships. For example. If I go head on with a fighter, the 100% will drop...and once the front sheild is gone it will display 50% and armor will start taking damage. The thing is...at 50%..the rear armor is still at full. So when I swing around and hit from the rear...many think they should be again hitting the armor (after all..they did on the pass), but they end up hitting sheild again. Stats don't drop because the rear armor is at 100% and dropping but hasnt met the 50% that is already displayed...and meanwhile the front sheild is recharging. once the rear sheild hits the 50% mark, the rear armor will be taking damage. In many cases of disabled ships, this is actually made glaring clear. If for example, I get in tight behind an Awing and take the rear shields out..it shows 50% sheilds...then take the rear armor out..agian 50% armor...now I hit the engine to 0% and it comes to a stop. I slam on the breaks and rotate around to get the kill (the stop and shotting of disabled targets is a tactic used by many newer players..its just easier to slam on the breaks and sit there shooting) now..I likely didnt stop as fast as the Awing...SO when I rotate around I either in a small % rotate to hit the rare "middle ring"..its rare but can happen...or I pass it and end up facing it from the front...where the sheilds and armor are STILL at 100% and requires me to toast through it all over again. The problem is..for the first part of the sheilds, the stats are not dropping because the guage is already showing 50% on the sheilds and wont be dropping the stats till the front sheilds are down. This makes it appear that the ship is having the "inv bug" when its just me shooting a new part of the ship and my basic equipement not giving me accurate info onthe target. The other way sheilds work are like on Gun Boats. On these ships, the sheild and armor are not split fornt and back. the full thing must be brought to 0% before armor takes damage etc. I bet very few people have had the "Inv bug" on GBs, and those few that have were likely lag.

It happened to me this past weekend. I am 2211 Imperial Pilot flying a TIE/IN ship with tier 3-5 components.I get tier 2 & 3 rebel destroy missions out of the Talus Imperial Outpost. The first waypoint I had no issues with. The next waypoint and beginning wave would not take damage. I chased and fired several volleys with no change to damageso I ran off until I was no longer in combat and then proceeded to the Talus Neutral Station to land. Just as I was getting close I had a new wave of ships attack me and thenI was able to damage and destroy them. I have been out a few times since and have not had this bug repeat.

---

KJFett3 wrote:

There are 2 things happening here that people keep thinking are the same thing....aside from an occasionalglitch and yes lag is a factor, but not one I will address, they are the following.

1) I have read and seen MP pilots us the "middle ring" to their advantage in PVE and PVP as well because the situation happens to our own craft as well. The difference is that most NPC ships don't hit the middle of our craft but rather the front or rear. This does happen, but is actually the least common of the 2 main issues when the Inv bug is claimed to have happened. The middle ring is the half mark on a ship where the 2 sheild zones overlap and the game doesn;t know where to place the shot.

2) This next situation is the one that happens most times, and also explainsthe sudden appearance of the Inv bug when the ship is disabled and being shot at. Sheild power on NPCs are displayed in a single 100% stat. This is a stat used to display differrent info on different ships. For example. If I go head on with a fighter, the 100% will drop...and once the front sheild is gone it will display 50% and armor will start taking damage. The thing is...at 50%..the rear armor is still at full. So when I swing around and hit from the rear...many think they should be again hitting the armor (after all..they did on the pass), but they end up hitting sheild again. Stats don't drop because the rear armor is at 100% and dropping but hasnt met the 50% that is already displayed...and meanwhile the front sheild is recharging. once the rear sheild hits the 50% mark, the rear armor will be taking damage. In many cases of disabled ships, this is actually made glaring clear. If for example, I get in tight behind an Awing and take the rear shields out..it shows 50% sheilds...then take the rear armor out..agian 50% armor...now I hit the engine to 0% and it comes to a stop. I slam on the breaks and rotate around to get the kill (the stop and shotting of disabled targets is a tactic used by many newer players..its just easier to slam on the breaks and sit there shooting) now..I likely didnt stop as fast as the Awing...SO when I rotate around I either in a small % rotate to hit the rare "middle ring"..its rare but can happen...or I pass it and end up facing it from the front...where the sheilds and armor are STILL at 100% and requires me to toast through it all over again. The problem is..for the first part of the sheilds, the stats are not dropping because the guage is already showing 50% on the sheilds and wont be dropping the stats till the front sheilds are down. This makes it appear that the ship is having the "inv bug" when its just me shooting a new part of the ship and my basic equipement not giving me accurate info onthe target. The other way sheilds work are like on Gun Boats. On these ships, the sheild and armor are not split fornt and back. the full thing must be brought to 0% before armor takes damage etc. I bet very few people have had the "Inv bug" on GBs, and those few that have were likely lag.

I think this issue is now coming up again because of the volume of new pilots that expect the stats to display as we all expected them to in the beginning. Once they catch on to what I show above, I am sure they will see it less or never and will understand why the Bwing they disabled from behind is now "untouchable" from the front...its only untouchable because the stats have to come together before the display is showing what you have really been doing the entire time.

Now, I know some are seeing cases where they literally pound over and over to no change...this is some type of lag. It is in the game and not a line connection issue. I run a network, and will on rare occasion have pounded on a ship over and over to no avail. What I also notice is my chat is very laggy and delayed. I won't lose connection, but the client will get way out of sync. My other PCs are working fine, and the router will show no loss of connection, but again...this is a very rare thing. I hae seen it twice in one day, and once in another since JTL launched.

My point is..for those wanting cliff notes...there are a handful of reasons that cause the issue...the biggest majority I think are caused by the basic instruments we use that are trying to display a lot of info and a misunderstnaing of what is displayed.

---

The bug I came across wasn't caused by the shield front and back issue as the target was at 100% shields.

I have had this problem a few times, with me their sheild flashes as if they've been hit but no damage to speak of, this happens mostly with tie bombers but it has happened with interceptors too. I thought that there was just a "hard spot" on the sheild where they took no damage, i had no idea it was a bug

Edit.: This hasn't happened on specific missions or ships, it's a general thing for me.

Message Edited by Ravanger on 06-27-2005 08:37 AM

From certain angles enemy ships do appear to be invulnerable or nearly invulnerable. I've even had this happen on ships that are already disabled and I cannot damage them unless I get to a very specific angle to fire at them.

When the enemy appears to not be taking any damage I can often just change the angle of my attack by a very small amount and they take damage again. Sometimes the enemy is taking damage but like 2 shots per 1% of component damage but if I change the angle of fire the ship loses 20% or more in one shot. (I disable ships alot before killing them so this is why I'm seeing this)

I never notice any high pings or latency in space so I dont really know of its *that* bug.. i.e. the ship isnt really where your client thinks it is so you end up not doing any damage.

I dont know if this is the same bug, but this happens to me often: I'll be shooting a target, and they take no damage. This lasts for a varying amount of time, then they 'jump' back about 50-100 meters and i can damage them once again. I recently figured out that the ship isnt where im shootingat, im forced to shoot about 50mbehind the ship to get any hits, its reallyannoying.