Pilot Archive

Those PYR numbers are in degrees whereas the ones you get in the V screen are in radians; translated, you'll find they're equal to each other. Furthermore, they're only acceleration numbers (how quick you can change directions and reach your maximum turning speed) determined entirely by the chassis of the ship you're flying, which are not the same thing as the PYR stats listed on engines (which measure top turn speeds).

PYR accel numbers listed as 300/300/150 instead of 5.2/5.2/2.6 and the like are something of a relic--they used to be listed on engines when placed in a chassis, despite the fact an engine has no influence on the accel rates--but many of us still think in terms of degrees rather than radians, and in any event, they're translated fairly easily once you understand what the numbers mean.

Hmm.. no guarantees on the clarity of the preceding post.

What TomoRainer said, in FAQ it's in degrees on V-screen it's in radians.

So am I understanding correctly that those numbers are accelerations and NOT rates? So It's just how fast the chassis can get to maximum rate, and the rate is determined soley by the engine?

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Dragon942 wrote:
So am I understanding correctly that those numbers are accelerations and NOT rates? So It's just how fast the chassis can get to maximum rate, and the rate is determined soley by the engine?

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With the caveat of the chassis speed modifier, which will affect your maximum forward velocity.

There's also a chance that it gets applied to your PYR rates as well. I've heard that it doesn't, but the lack of documented tests combined with the counterintuitive notion that, if speed mods didn't apply to turn rates, a Y-8 at optimal throttle would turn just as fast as an A-Wing (given identical engines) has me thinking it could.

Message Edited by TomoRainer on 07-12-2005 07:35 AM

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TomoRainer wrote:

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Dragon942 wrote:
So am I understanding correctly that those numbers are accelerations and NOT rates? So It's just how fast the chassis can get to maximum rate, and the rate is determined soley by the engine?

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With the caveat of the chassis speed modifier, which will affect your maximum forward velocity.

There's also a chance that it gets applied to your PYR rates as well. I've heard that it doesn't, but the lack of documented tests combined with the counterintuitive notion that, if speed mods didn't apply to turn rates, a Y-8 at optimal throttle would turn just as fast as an A-Wing (given identical engines) has me thinking it could.

Message Edited by TomoRainer on 07-12-2005 07:35 AM

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Here is the problem I have(straight from the FAQ of course):

(Tier 4) TIE-Advanced: 80k Resources ~65k mass [SP: 2 Guns] 1 missile
[Spdx 1.0 Acc 40 Dec 60 Pitch 300 Yaw 300 Roll 150]

(Tier 4) Eta-2 Actis Interceptor (Jedi Starfighter): N/A Resources 90k mass [SP: 2 Guns] 1 missile
[Spdx 0.95 Acc 50 Dec 50 Pitch 600 Yaw 600 Roll 300]

First of, I can hardly believe that the JSF is twice as responsive (accelerating to rate) as the TIE-Advanced (as well as the Interceptor models and other 300 yp ships). But assuming I get over that, there is no way in hell its actual turning rate is twice as much. Not even close. This might make me believe that rate is based just on your engine.

But this is hard to beleive too, or, as you said, a Y-8 could turn just as well as an A-Wing at the proper throttle. So that can't be case either.

But the throttle thing brings up an interesting point. There is obviously a modifier based on your throttle percentage. So maybe there is a modifier scale. As in at X percent throttle, you can turn at Y percent of your engine's YPR, where there is a Y defined for every given X. And maybe this scale doesn't reach 100% on every craft (i.e. at the best throttle setting it might only be 30% for the Y-8) or might even exceed 100% for some.

Does that make sense when you think about all the ships and engines you've flown? If this is the way it works, it would unfortunetly be very hard to quantify the handling characteristics of your ship. But then again, I guess it is already.

EDIT: Double post.

Message Edited by Dragon942 on 07-12-2005 11:24 AM

PYR accel numbers just affect changing directions, not maximum turn speeds. IF maximum turn speeds are affected by anything, it'd be the chassis speed mod.. otherwise, your maximum turn rate is wholly determined by your engine, nothing else.

That's quite an interesting idea when it comes to ideal throttle settings, in that maybe some ships don't have a throttle setting at which you reach 100% of your possible turn rate. I can't think of any evidence for it, though, and in light of simpler explanations (e.g. chassis speed mods affecting PYR rates as well, or nothing affecting them), I'd be disinclined to believe it till there were a compelling reason to do so.

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TomoRainer wrote:
PYR accel numbers just affect changing directions, not maximum turn speeds.

Yeah, that's the conclusion I've come to also.

IF maximum turn speeds are affected by anything, it'd be the chassis speed mod.. otherwise, your maximum turn rate is wholly determined by your engine, nothing else.

That makes the most sense of anything I've heard actually. As an Imp pilot I definetly notice a correlation between the speed mod and the handling. I never even thought of that until you just mentioned it, but it would make sense that the mod affected the intire engine instead of just top speed. But that leaves me with a question I can't answer, does the X-Wing really turn as poorly as the Oppressor(both at .9)?

That's quite an interesting idea when it comes to ideal throttle settings, in that maybe some ships don't have a throttle setting at which you reach 100% of your possible turn rate. I can't think of any evidence for it, though, and in light of simpler explanations (e.g. chassis speed mods affecting PYR rates as well, or nothing affecting them), I'd be disinclined to believe it till there were a compelling reason to do so.

I agree now, probably all ships have a setting to handle at 100% of their speed mod x their YPR. But there is obviously still a sliding scale, and some ships have a wider range where they can turn well. Still hard to quantify that performance

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(Tier 1) Dunelizard:~85k mass[SP: 2 Guns] 1 missile[Spdx 0.95 Acc 30 Dec 30 Pitch 300 Yaw 300 Roll 150]
(Tier 2) Kihraxz:~40k mass[SP: 1 Guns] 1 missile[Spdx 1.0 Acc 40 Dec 50 Pitch 400 Yaw 400 Roll 200]
Dunelizard: Speed (max): 58.3, Yaw Acc: 5.2, Pitch Acc: 5.2, Roll Acc: 2.6, Yaw (max) 1.1, Pitch (max) 1.1, Roll (max) 1.0
Kihraxz: Speed (max): 58.3, Yaw Acc: 7.0, Pitch Acc:7.0, Roll Acc: 3.5, Yaw (max) 1.1, Pitch (max) 1.1, Roll (max) 1.0
Engine: Pitch Rate Maximum 65.8, Yaw Rate Maximum 60.2, Roll Rate Maximum 58.0, Engine Top Speed 58.3

These PYR numbers refer to,and are infact just a different representation of these PYR numbers? Degrees and Radians? not to be confused with Rdians?

Where does that leave me and my engine with it'sPYR of 60ish? I thought we'retalking about caps...nevermind that... So... PYR Max is set by the engine, multiplied by the chassisPYR (max) mods... so aKihraxz / Actiscannot turn faster than a Dunelizard, it just reacts quicker... That wouldn't help with tracking a fast moving target at a distance,but it would help tracking a target when you are right behind a target who is trying to shake you...

Hence the huge difference in play style between me and my buddyI fly aDunelizardatm, (Cling ontosomeone'srear-end and hammer away until I'vecompletley shot my load), and my wingman, who has always flown aY-Wing (3444 Y-wing flyer,not even an LP!) who uses well timed, long range, single shots from some Akira style, Orbital Laser Cannon that he must have looted from the Death Star.

Message Edited by ViolentAngel on 07-13-2005 08:33 AM

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ViolentAngel wrote:

(Tier 1) Dunelizard:~85k mass[SP: 2 Guns] 1 missile[Spdx 0.95 Acc 30 Dec 30 Pitch 300 Yaw 300 Roll 150]
(Tier 2) Kihraxz:~40k mass[SP: 1 Guns] 1 missile[Spdx 1.0 Acc 40 Dec 50 Pitch 400 Yaw 400 Roll 200]
Dunelizard: Speed (max): 58.3, Yaw Acc: 5.2, Pitch Acc: 5.2, Roll Acc: 2.6, Yaw (max) 1.1, Pitch (max) 1.1, Roll (max) 1.0
Kihraxz: Speed (max): 58.3, Yaw Acc: 7.0, Pitch Acc:7.0, Roll Acc: 3.5, Yaw (max) 1.1, Pitch (max) 1.1, Roll (max) 1.0
Engine: Pitch Rate Maximum 65.8, Yaw Rate Maximum 60.2, Roll Rate Maximum 58.0, Engine Top Speed 58.3

These PYR numbers refer to,and are infact just a different representation of these PYR numbers? Degrees and Radians? not to be confused with R odians?

Where does that leave me and my engine with it'sPYR of 60ish? I thought we'retalking about caps...nevermind that... So... PYR Max is set by the engine, multiplied by the chassisPYR (max) mods... so aKihraxz / Actiscannot turn faster than a Dunelizard, it just reacts quicker... That wouldn't help with tracking a fast moving target at a distance,but it would help tracking a target when you are right behind a target who is trying to shake you...

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Yes, I believe everything you said there is right. Ever fly on Oppressor or Krayt? Notice how you snap the joystick one way and the ships kinda mozies on over there instead of snapping over like a JSF? That is the RYP Acceleration. As I think Tomo mentioned, back in Beta there were actually stats on the engine for this. Now I guess its just based on chassis.

But we some to have come to the conclusion that the max rate you can turn is simply a product of your engine's ypr stats, the chasis speed modifier, and the modifier the ship gives for your throttle position (though we have no clue of the exact nature of this variable).

I was in my Dunelizard again last night (I like having two weapons atm, but I don't really want to "upgrade"to an Ixiyen until I can find a use forthe extra mass), and I was thinking about the whole Throttle Setting VS PYR bonus thing.

So I sat still, and Pitched, then brought my Throttle down to 75%, 50% then 25%. I didn't notice a huge difference between 100% and 75%, but then after that, down to 25% there is a big difference where you start to slow down instead. Results of the least professional experiment in Forum History;

• above 75%throttle = Default PYR


• 75% - 25% throttle = PYR Bonus


• under 25% throttle = PYR Penalty

I couldn't see agreat difference between 75%, 50% and 25%. I hope my amateur "waiting for my wingman at a Space Station with nothing to do" experiment gives inspiration to someone a little more calculus.

I have lot of trouble understanding the numbers, not to mention the physics of this.

I don't really understand the relation between the PYR on engine (which is in degrees and is the turning radius if I understand it correctly) and the PYR "acceleration" on the ship. In which unit is the PYR acceleration?

Can the PYR accelaration on chassis be explained maybe like this: "The speed it take me to stop going forward and start turning to the new direction". Maybe we should see it as deacceleration (stop going forward) / acceleration (how long it take to get me into the new direction).

Hmm or maybe this: When you turn a ship , the front of a long ship need to travel further than the front of a small ship (think of it as rotating around the center of the ship). If you are turning 45 degrees the long ship would travel a longer distance before the front is pointing in 45 deg angle so if you do a 360 deg the long ship would make a larger circle than the short ship.

Trying to find an explanation that I can understand (in my mind I compare it with naval ships which I have more experience of than flight)