Pilot Archive
Thread: The JSF, Size does not always matter ( easy on the jokes)
I thought I would share these thoughts with the community about those who think it is IMPOSSABLE for a small ship to fit so much in such a small frame.
Just for arguents sakes,
the write up on the JSF says it is a compact frame. While one can say the ship will weigh 90k after all compontes are installed , that is not true. Does that mean that with no componts the ships chasse weighs nothing? No, the max weight must mean this is how much weight in compoints you can install on the chasse. Like the max bomb load before the wings or frame snap. a.g. remember the old big american cars . You could step into the hood and work on the engine , there was so much space in the hood you could almost fit your body and the engine in the space. Now days I have my car where the have to side mount the engine and I can not even see the ground from above the engine. Things are that packed.
Thus , it could be the componts on the expantion ships are more pressed together like the JSF, they are packed in close while the ships like the Oppresser have more redundent systems and space between the installed componts you installed.
I am guessing more goes into a ship than just what you put into it. The Chassie I am sure has more of the misc. parts. The JSF just has less of the misc parts ,
You would be supprised how much weight in ordance an little US Navy A-4 skyhawk carried 9,155 lbs in ordance while empty weight was only ~9,853 lbs. It was very small like 40 ft length , 15 ft height , and wing spand of 27.5 ft. And it still had space for 2 ea 20 mil canons. It to could carry more then many larger attack aircraft.
So, size is not always a true measure of what an airframe can do.
Just some food for thought
What relevance does your argument have with the inherent problems regarding balance of the new ships versus the old?
Frankly i'm sick of the whole debate. We know the RoTW ships are unbalanced, people can use all the EU justifications they want, but as Coran said they have nothing to do with the game. In the context of the game, having such a small ship, with such a large mass is unbalancing.
I don't care about physics, because the game isn't based on those. Its based on a system. The JSF is unbalanced in the rules of the system.
Its that simple.
And for the record i still use my JSF, its fun, but i recognise the problems with it, and don't try to come up with lame excuses to justify me using them.
Fighter 1: 65K mass, 2 gun slots, 1 ordinance slot, Y/P/R 300/300/125 (recognize this one?), Speed 1.0
Fighter 2: 65K mass, 1 gun slot, 1 ordinance slot, Y/P/R 250/300/125 (how about this?), speed 1.0
Fighter 3: 90K mass, 2 gun slots, 1 ordinance slot, Y/P/R 600/600/300, Speed 0.95
Which one doesn't belong?
Message Edited by Coran_Sienar on 09-02-2005 11:12 AM
I think the issue is that, for the original JtL ships, for the most part things were fairly balanced in terms of mass, maneuverabiltiy, speed, etc. You might have a high mass ship, but it would have a larger profile, larger hitbox, maybe didn't handle as maneuverably as a small fast ship, etc. Sort of like the phrase "you can have it right, you can have it fast, you can have it cheap. You get to only pick TWO tho... right and fast but NOT cheap, right and cheap but NOT fast, or cheap and fast but NOT right". There was balance there. You weren't seeing folks put super engines AND super weapons AND super shields AND armor AND.. .AND... AND... in the small, maneuverable ships. The Belb22 and the JSF specifically seem to go very much against that, being both very maneuverable, fast, and able to pack in a LOT of gear.
The faction heavy variants also I guess have some problems, tho at least they are balanced in that if I choose to fly my TIE (Heavy), I've got a whomping big hit box to consider and I'm still limited to one weapon. I can't pack in all that stuff PLUS 2 or 3 uber weapons AND killer shields, etc. I'd probably lean more towards keeping those around, but moving the certs for them to Tier 4 instead of certing them at Tier 1 - all that does is encourage people to not have to learn mass management with their ship. Best thing I ever did was learn how to fit out my Interceptor to be able to solo Tier 3 and Tier 4 missions on my way to Ace, sure it's not got as much punch as a Belb22 or JSF can have with their extra mass and weapons and still-great-maneuverability, but then... I'm probably a better, and smarter, pilot for that effort. I died a lot at the start, but I learned. And got better parts.
I've only flown Imp sqaudrons to date so I can't comment on the Kashyyyk rewards for Reb or Freelancer, but so far of all the RoTW ships, the one that seems the most "balanced" to me is my RGI. Yes, it has hitbox issues, but comparting it to all the others, when if they finally do fix the hitbox on that, it seems like it's a fairly well balanced ship compared with the older JtL ships. A bit more mass, but not picking up 1 or 2 extra weapons or anything. It's really just an interceptor with a tad more mass, and it's red. I love it, I hope they fix the hitbox so I can fly it more. 
I tend to fly a bunch of different ships, since I'm still trying to learn the ins and outs of their different handling. Most of the ones I fly, and enjoy, are older JtL ships. The exception is the Belb22, which I currently use (when I'm certed for it and not going thru a squadron for another Ace badge) as my mining fighter. It actually works and handles quite well for mining, and until they fix the Y8 quests so I can go up with friends in tHAT and mine, the Belb22 is actually a nice little ship for mining.
Ouch! schooled by the Chef! I am just saying that people were using the ," how can such a small figher fit soo much stuff."
Yes it is a super ship. So they let everyone fly it. and you only get one . Unless you can get someone to sell you theirs or buy a new account and do the quest.
I am guessing this is the only way we IMPS are ever going to get people to join the Empire. LOL
even if is for a short while. There are spies very where.
Message Edited by Guyvii2 on 09-02-2005 09:08 AM
Yes, Physics obivously comes into play here.
DeepFatFryer wrote:
Small spacecraft being propelled through the vacuum of space at a constant top speed, firing lasers at each other.
Yes, Physics obivously comes into play here.
Haha, i remember on the JTL beta boards all these physics people have a brain hemerage because of the constant top speed and the way ships turn.
Guyvii2 wrote:
Ouch! schooled by the Chef! I am just saying that people were using the ," how can such a small figher fit soo much stuff."
Yes it is a super ship. So they let everyone fly it. and you only get one . Unless you can get someone to sell you theirs or buy a new account and do the quest.
I am guessing this is the only way we IMPS are ever going to get people to join the Empire. LOL
even if is for a short while. There are spies very where.
Message Edited by Guyvii2 on 09-02-2005 09:08 AM
Well, you only get one JSF, but the Belb has the exact same stats, just has some issues with certain weapons on that bottom slot, certain boosters not showing up, etc. =)
Chassis decay just means if your shields and armour go then you'll die in 1 shot rather than three or four, whoop-de-doo basil.
Higginsis wrote:
DeepFatFryer wrote:
Small spacecraft being propelled through the vacuum of space at a constant top speed, firing lasers at each other.
Yes, Physics obivously comes into play here.
Haha, i remember on the JTL beta boards all these physics people have a brain hemerage because of the constant top speed and the way ships turn.
I still remember space combat before sweetspots, and when you could 'turret'.. good times
DeepFatFryer wrote:
Higginsis wrote:
DeepFatFryer wrote:
Small spacecraft being propelled through the vacuum of space at a constant top speed, firing lasers at each other.
Yes, Physics obivously comes into play here.
Haha, i remember on the JTL beta boards all these physics people have a brain hemerage because of the constant top speed and the way ships turn.
I still remember space combat before sweetspots, and when you could 'turret'.. good times
Lol space turrets was fun. Almost as much as the uncatchable ships, matchspeed on enemies being broke for most of the beta (and into live i recall) and super missle spamming gunboats that killed you in one hit.
Still was funny when a y wing could handle like a A wing. Just imagine if there were no chassic YPR mods now