Pilot Archive
Thread: No FS xp conversion
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HardwiredXMan
Thu Dec 23, 2004 7:12 am
#1
I'm seeing many more post asking for pilot xp/prestige to be converted into fs xp...
I don't agree with this for one simple reason.
Just like being a jedi has nothing to do with flying a space ship, flying a space ship has nothing to do with being force sensitive. Unless the devs implement the ability to use force sensitive skills in space, then pilot xp should not be allowed to convert to FS xp. EDITED: (this statement means that in the state of the game now.....no jedi or fs skills affect space...whether they should or shouldn't is a moot point....just because in the movies fs skills were used in piloting..it's not in this game so how can we debate this.)
The only FS skills I see that could affect piloting a ship is vehicle control (which could enhance the PYR of your ship) or luck (which would affect your pilot commands executing more successfully or increased chances of great loot drops).
Until we can use FS skills in space, then I can't see any reason why we should be able to convert the xp at all.....since we don't spend skill points for pilot and we can gain xp in space twice as fast as we can on the ground....even with a higher conversion rate, pilot xp should not be tradable for fs xp.
I'd much rather see the devs work on some other content for space instead of wasting time trying to get conversion rates for pilot xp right especially when you can't even use any fs skills in space...so what's the point....I just think people feel it might be an easier grind doing it in space......
But that leads to another problem....as a master pilot you can grind loads of xp without worrying about decay on ship parts or any damage to yourself....that means you are steadily making money, steadily making xp...but absolutely no risk andthat means loads of money will not be flowing out of the system because you don't have to buy new armor, weapons, food, insurance, buffing or other related cost that constantly cycles loads of money out of the game.
All a master pilot has to to is go to deep space and upon exiting, all damaage is healed for free......if they put the ability to conver space xp to fs xp, how many people want the free repairs to be taken out of the pvp zone.....because everyone would be there grinding since the xp there is so good.
Message Edited by HardwiredXMan on 12-24-2004 12:11 PM
HardwiredXMan
Fri Dec 24, 2004 7:56 am
#2
It would be nice if people would post their opinion when the agree or disagree with something....the star rating system doesn't tell anyone anything about why you disagree. When you rate a post, no matter if its a 1 or a 5, you are not helping the situation any. rating a post with no comment of your own, will not help the issue the post is talking about get resolved.....I thought the forums was a place to "DISCUSS" issues.....not secretly rate post for whatever your reasons are.
See if those of you who rated this post actually put your opinions down and why you disagree, then you might know something or have an idea that actually helps the situation.
If you cannot type even a small statement why you disagree or agree with something, then your opinion shouldn't even count when it comes to the devs implementing new ideas or changing old ones....after all you couldn't even express your thoughts and so, you are insignificant to me and any issue that's being discussed..
Get off the rating system people....it doesn't help the game in anyway.
Message Edited by HardwiredXMan on 12-24-2004 09:57 AM
Marzuk147
Fri Dec 24, 2004 8:18 am
#3
Bieng a jedi has nothing to do with killing hundreds of thousands of small wild animals either. Nothing to do with crafting 291,000 junk things that you throw away ect. Both Luke and his father were pilots, and Luke was even encouraged by Obi Wan to use the force a couple times while flying if I remember correctly.
At any rate, a person should be able to grind FS xp however they choose, most find pilot xp fun, and thus are going to want to grind it that way. Its not faster than ground xp on a point per point comparison, and Id even go 60:1 (compare to 30:1 weapon + 3:1 combat which is basically 15:1) which is 4x less conversion than ground xp that I can earn at the same rate, simply because its fun.
What I say next is going to be something that Im sure NO ONE agrees on, but at the very least it will point out a fatal flaw of FS xp. I believe that pilot xp should apply to ANY FS xp. Why? Its simple, all of them should be equally difficult to get, thus you would get no advantage from using a lower conversion rate xp right? Only they are not equally difficult to get, and Starship combat would automatically become the preference of choice for most players, exposing flaws in the FS xp system.
Ive not really seen very many good reasons AGAINST allowing it, other than some garbage about wanting to keep JTL seperate from the ground game. IMO you buy an expansion to, well you know expand on the original game, not to play a totally seperate game, so some more integration is long overdue.
"since we don't spend skill points for pilot and we can gain xp in space twice as fast as we can on the ground"
Speed capped swordsman here. If you can earn as much in space in an hour as I can on the ground in an hour, Id be shocked. Also my ability to earn xp on the ground is only capped by my luck in finding mobs. In space, unless you think you can coordinate and exploit 5,129 people all firing at the same target, you wont out earn me. With a lower conversion for space, it would become a moot point.
At 60:1 conversion, you would have to earn 4,000,000 xp per hour, to do what I can do on the ground (60:1 vs 15:1 when you figure that you get both weapons and combat xp at the same time).
Can you earn 4,000,000 xp in space in an hour? I think not.
The MAIN reason why people want this, is that it would be a FUN way of getting FS xp, even at a slower rate. Games are supposed to be about fun, thus I support it.
At any rate, a person should be able to grind FS xp however they choose, most find pilot xp fun, and thus are going to want to grind it that way. Its not faster than ground xp on a point per point comparison, and Id even go 60:1 (compare to 30:1 weapon + 3:1 combat which is basically 15:1) which is 4x less conversion than ground xp that I can earn at the same rate, simply because its fun.
What I say next is going to be something that Im sure NO ONE agrees on, but at the very least it will point out a fatal flaw of FS xp. I believe that pilot xp should apply to ANY FS xp. Why? Its simple, all of them should be equally difficult to get, thus you would get no advantage from using a lower conversion rate xp right? Only they are not equally difficult to get, and Starship combat would automatically become the preference of choice for most players, exposing flaws in the FS xp system.
Ive not really seen very many good reasons AGAINST allowing it, other than some garbage about wanting to keep JTL seperate from the ground game. IMO you buy an expansion to, well you know expand on the original game, not to play a totally seperate game, so some more integration is long overdue.
"since we don't spend skill points for pilot and we can gain xp in space twice as fast as we can on the ground"
Speed capped swordsman here. If you can earn as much in space in an hour as I can on the ground in an hour, Id be shocked. Also my ability to earn xp on the ground is only capped by my luck in finding mobs. In space, unless you think you can coordinate and exploit 5,129 people all firing at the same target, you wont out earn me. With a lower conversion for space, it would become a moot point.
At 60:1 conversion, you would have to earn 4,000,000 xp per hour, to do what I can do on the ground (60:1 vs 15:1 when you figure that you get both weapons and combat xp at the same time).
Can you earn 4,000,000 xp in space in an hour? I think not.
The MAIN reason why people want this, is that it would be a FUN way of getting FS xp, even at a slower rate. Games are supposed to be about fun, thus I support it.
Message Edited by Marzuk147 on 12-24-2004 11:22 AM
GlargTheKelfn
Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:08 am
#4
time in game is time in game. whether you are on the ground killing chickens or in space killing sentient beings, it's killing. and jedi is all about the mass murder of everything n your path.
no jedi skills in space, but space xp can be converted.
but, as i've said before, that would grinding jedi not suck, so i don't think it will happen. part of jedi population control is the amount of suck you have to go thru.
no jedi skills in space, but space xp can be converted.
but, as i've said before, that would grinding jedi not suck, so i don't think it will happen. part of jedi population control is the amount of suck you have to go thru.
HardwiredXMan
Fri Dec 24, 2004 9:59 am
#5
I actually agree with both above post that we should be allowed to use space xp for conversions....
However, I'm not just going by what i think would be fun to do or what we should be able to do.....bottom line is that the devs need a reason to actually implement the ability to convert space xp to fs xp.....in any part of this game where you gain xp, how you gain that xp and what that xp is used for directly relates to the means by which you are getting it.
This means that on the ground, you gain fs xp by using professions skills and specials to make normal xp, convert that into fs xp that will allow you to train in a fs skill....that fs skill adds to the profession(s) that you already have and increases some kind of ability to make your character much more adeptto doing whatever it is they do, combat or craft.
Now in space, there is no fs skill that will help any of your piloting ability or commands....space does not benefit from the fs grind in any way at all....so for this reason I don't like the idea of put the ability to earn fs xp into a part of the game that has nothing to due with being force sensitive....Unless of course the devs add to JTL and allow fs skills to affect space related task. THen and only then will the ability of converting space xp to fs xp be warranted.
As for fs skills having nothing to do with the ground game...you are wrong on this...becuase gaining FS skills that grant extra speed, accuracy, defense, crafting assembly, looting, healing...etc. makes a difference to every profession in the game..................except piloting.
So every profession from the ground game that is not specifically tied to the JTL expansion is affected by FS skills if you so choose to go force sensitve.....SW should be included in the conversion because fs crafting will affect them as well....but no fs skill will affect flying a ship in space at this current time....maybe in the future it will, but until it does...then no space xp should be convertable to fs xp.
Using space xp to convert to fs xp might be more fun....but when you look at the whole game, everything that you have to work for to make your character better or make your gaming experience better is directly affected by the means in which you go about reaching that goal.....
you take your swordsman, grind 2 hand xp, convert it to fs xp, train in melee speed...that makes you a faster swordsman....
you take a master ace pilot, grind millions of uncapped prestige....convert it to fs xp, you train in whatever fs skill branch.....what! none of it helps improve my pilot....oh but I can have a jedi pretty soon!
However, I would like to see space xp convert to fs xp....but at the same time I would like to see fs skills improve space related task....just like luke used the force to shoot missiles to blow up the death star....why can't a fs accuracy skill help improve the effectiveness of our missiles.....maybe make it turn a bit more than normal....make the PYR of the Tow boat like b-wing pitch faster with increased immediate control instead of turning and floating for a couple of seconds before it actually turns......see any of these things would certainly make space xp to fs xp convertion valid.
Then also, you have to consider this....with every benefit you get, you have to pay a price......so what would the price be for being allowed to use force sensitive abilities in space.....HMMM! let's see......worst case sceerio....jedi death penalties apply in space.....OH MY GOD, who wants that......on a lesser note, components degrade 2 times or 3 times as fast when using force related abilities.....I could go on, but that's just 2.
right now there is no penalty in space at all....to gain the benefit of converting xp that's supposed to be the second hardest and boring to get, we must pay a price for it being fun and ultimately easier to get.
As for making xp in space....the only difference I see, in space you don't have to spend 10 -15 minutes getting buffed, traveling to a planet, refreshing mission terminals to get the right mission, joining a solo group, traveling back and forth to your missions and make the xp....then travel way to the village to convert it....that's a lot of time.
In space, as a master pilot (which is easy to get), you can go to deep space or kessel, make 8 - 30k xp per kill, camp eithr sector (so as long as the SD or reb station doesn't get blown up).....and grind prestige all day, nonstop, no long waits, no long travel, no stopages in repairing weapons and armor, no getting buffed...etc.
So in an actual hours time, yes elite combat profession may gain loads more xp in an hour than 1 hour in space....but over a long period of time (which it will take a long time to grind a lot of xp in eithr situation).....the benefits of being in space gaining non-stop xp, outweighs grinding on the ground.....I can destroy10 imp gunships in a30 minutes or so...at 20 - 30kxp each....I can make 300k xp off of that.....that don't include the 6 - 8k xp for the fighters nearby......and after I make that 300k xp, I don't have to go convert anything, I just keep going and going and going until I'm satisfied....non-stop.....No worries about dying or anything.....if i'm in deep space, I get 100% repairs when I leave.....If your a rebel, in normal systems you get a repair ship and replenishment ship....space stations repair (don't even have to land)....plus ships travel 5x faster than a swoop does......this is assumption (cause I have no way of knowing) but I believe a space system is a little bigger than the ground game.....I bet I can travel across the whole system in my ship faster than you can in your speeder.....Oh and then there's hyperspace.
Basically though, all I'm saying is the benefits of space greatly outweigh any benefits on the ground.....so giveing space xp to fs xp conversion is a bad idea....unless the devs make some changes to space....and i'm sure not many people will like some of the changes that they will be forced to make just to make it fun for us to grind fs xp in space.....I just say leave it alone, fix the pvp in space and miscellaneous ground game issues...there is nothing wrong with the fs grind like it is....so leave it alone.
Message Edited by HardwiredXMan on 12-24-2004 12:05 PM
Message Edited by HardwiredXMan on 12-24-2004 12:05 PM
Wompm
Fri Dec 24, 2004 11:53 am
#6
i would actually be far more interested in a 1000:1 converstion to faction pts. i have countless millions of prestige pts. we be great if i could swap them for a couple hundred thousand faction pts....
Iluvatar- Master Fencer/Master TKA/Imperial Ace Pilot/ Master Brawler/ Pikeman 4-3-4-0:
TheSkankinSpiv
Fri Dec 24, 2004 12:09 pm
#7
A few notes I've decided to make:
*cough* theres no benifits for people using ranged weapons, even if they have the force sensitive ranged skills *glaredevs*
Also, it seems like your more wanting to force people to link having some type of post master benifits in space with the possibility that our work for jedi could be our fun in space. Personally I think the whole system is well enough without having more benifits. What do you want to do, solo a star destroyer? Heh.
*cough* theres no benifits for people using ranged weapons, even if they have the force sensitive ranged skills *glaredevs*
Also, it seems like your more wanting to force people to link having some type of post master benifits in space with the possibility that our work for jedi could be our fun in space. Personally I think the whole system is well enough without having more benifits. What do you want to do, solo a star destroyer? Heh.
Kinot33
Sat Dec 25, 2004 1:02 am
#8
(First paragraph edited because, upon re-reading the one I meant to respond about, I realized he said something significantly different than what I thought I read. My bad)
And how do you get that massive amount of XP on the ground to convert?
Oh food and buffs you say? And power-ups? And decaying armor that loses its effectiveness the more worn it becomes until finally it falls apart? And decaying weapons that do the same? And he has to wander around looking for spawns on the ground that can be several hundreds of meters apart and then has no guarantee of what he will find if he isn't a Ranger and tracking?
A pilot has not a single one of these problems. And that in itself is a problem for another discussion. FS conversion would be a complete GIFT with nothing at all now but time invested. So unless it was something on the order of 6000-1, it would make the grind nearly pointless. Once you make Ace and get your ship outfitted decent, you are only flying around looking for good loot to RE into slightly better components. You most likely will not have to replace anything for a horrifically long time, thus making Shipwright suck because the demand isn't really there for 80% of their skills on a regular basis, its all trickle now.
Once you have a decent ship as an Ace, you are fully self-reliant. You do not have to use missiles with the number of multi-gun ships available to each faction. I am a Privateer and I fly a Rihx with 3 blasters and no missile and make XP and credits like mad. My only purchasing in the future for my ship will be some RE fees when i collect all the weapons I need for it. If I could turn Prestige in FSxp, I would actually go and do the Warren mission, since I would be guaranteed to get jedi within one cycle and not sweat it a bit. I went through Tier 4's 4million XP almost incidentally to flying for cash and parts in less than a week and was also grinding Commando at the same time. 400 million XP wouldn't be that much more difficult.
Tier 3's give me 1200+ xp for zero risk. I can fight them in waves of 7+ (15 at one point, stupid waypoint for mission popped in between two spawns) and they don't even get to my armor (2554/2555 RE'd Reward Shield, and man am I glad I didn't know about the Shield exploit beforehand). I can those 7 in less than 60 seconds. 8400+ xp in a minute, no buffs, no food, no risk. Step up to Tier 4's and there is a slight risk. I can kill 3-4 of them in less than a minute for 3-4000 Xp each. 9000+ xp per minute, little risk, no food, no buffs, no dancers, no healing, no repairs.
AndI can find any Tier spawn I need whenever I need it, in the exact same place, everytime.
FS conversion would be a straight-up gift no matter what level you set it at because the path would be arrow straight. Unlock a box, fly until you've got the line, unlock another box, fly some more. And when you get that last box open, kill some git in a gank group and enjoy your retirement as a stupidly-rich Jedi Padawan.
....until you decide Jedi should have some kind of conversion for their Prestige into Force Combat XP or something. (I admit I don't know what the various Jedi XP's are because i don't really wanna be one)
Message Edited by Kinot33 on 12-24-2004 02:05 PM
TheSkankinSpiv
Sat Dec 25, 2004 1:33 am
#9
The money sink point you make is a good one and certainly somthing for another discussion. Despite that however, I'd just like to see at least some force sensitive conversion in order for me to think that I'm not wasting my time in space.
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