Pilot Archive
Thread: Piloting for a gunner
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Rabenschwinge
Sun Jan 09, 2005 5:05 am
#1
Hi there,
one of the most intriguing features of JTL is the ability to do space in a team. A friend who isn't to deep in all this space combat stuff approached me and asked me wether I wanted to help her. Since I had some difficulties with a deal for a Nova Courier I got a Y-Wing with a level 10 gun ready and we took off.
Well I have piloted for gunners before, right in the very first days when JTL was out and acted as gunner myself in both a YT1300 and in Nova Couriers. But I found things had changed very much, made it far more difficult to pilot in a way that allows my gunner to hit anything.
NPCs don't fly in uninspired circles anymore and there movements are not fully predictable. My gunner can only fire at targets in my ships plane or slightly above it. I found that to enable her to hit anything I gotta fly slow, smooth constant turns, rotate the enemy into the right plane when needed but rotate as few as possible, keep in mind the enemies facing, follow an enemy even if I don't see actually see and guess the enemies manuvers from my radar.
The result was the enemy constantly outmanuvering me, but if I acted less smooth my gunner wouldn't have any chance to hit anything. Even the slightest manuvers made it extremely difficult for my gunner. I guess only experience can teach me how to do this right, but I wonder if any of you has some helpful hints on piloting this way.
Greetings
Sharven
one of the most intriguing features of JTL is the ability to do space in a team. A friend who isn't to deep in all this space combat stuff approached me and asked me wether I wanted to help her. Since I had some difficulties with a deal for a Nova Courier I got a Y-Wing with a level 10 gun ready and we took off.
Well I have piloted for gunners before, right in the very first days when JTL was out and acted as gunner myself in both a YT1300 and in Nova Couriers. But I found things had changed very much, made it far more difficult to pilot in a way that allows my gunner to hit anything.
NPCs don't fly in uninspired circles anymore and there movements are not fully predictable. My gunner can only fire at targets in my ships plane or slightly above it. I found that to enable her to hit anything I gotta fly slow, smooth constant turns, rotate the enemy into the right plane when needed but rotate as few as possible, keep in mind the enemies facing, follow an enemy even if I don't see actually see and guess the enemies manuvers from my radar.
The result was the enemy constantly outmanuvering me, but if I acted less smooth my gunner wouldn't have any chance to hit anything. Even the slightest manuvers made it extremely difficult for my gunner. I guess only experience can teach me how to do this right, but I wonder if any of you has some helpful hints on piloting this way.
Greetings
Sharven
Elite2121
Sun Jan 09, 2005 5:38 am
#2
Well the TIE agressor has a gun on the back of it that another player can use. However this gun can basically only hit things behind the ship, so the way i attacked the bigger ships such as corriers (sp) was to fly head at them, do all the damage i can, then when i pass them and they start turning, my gunner can pound away at them, of course i had to mix this in with a few missles to get the job done. One thing you shuold keep in mind is that they can still fire when you disable the reactor, im not sure if this is suppose to be but they still fire when i disable the reactor, so target their guns first once you get past the armor. Since i noticed your a rebel, you should use the shield placement adjustments from your flight computer to the biggest advantage.
LecheHombre
Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:05 pm
#3
The Y-Wing has a fairly poor turret seat. As you noticed, it can only shoot above the horizontal (possibly 2-5 degrees below) and only to roughly 45-50 degrees above the horizon. I've flown in YT-1300s, Nova Couriers, and the M22 Krayt as a gunner. In all of them, the turret range is a full hemisphere away from the flat axis on which they are mounted. I believe the Aggressor is the same way, with a full hemisphere to the rear of the ship. I'd like to see the Y-Wing changed to the same viable range.
However, piloting is still a strong component of the gunner's viability, because the turrets have no ability to gyro to a consistent heading when the pilot manuevers. So slow, smooth manuevering while keeping the turret's motion range in mind is a must.
However, piloting is still a strong component of the gunner's viability, because the turrets have no ability to gyro to a consistent heading when the pilot manuevers. So slow, smooth manuevering while keeping the turret's motion range in mind is a must.
TheSkankinSpiv
Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:39 pm
#4
One thing I saw some people talking about that I was slightly interested in trying is flying the ship more as you'd fly a fighter and tell the gunner to just point ahead and adjust small bits as opposed to completely following a target. Sure this wouldnt' be the best hard and permanent rule but it would be an interesting thing to try out.
Bastilaa
Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:15 pm
#5
When I take a gunner up its normally easier for them to point the way I'm flying due to the fact I'm often on the tail of the ship I'm after.
SheenaBrelya
Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:23 pm
#6
Having a gunner is a bit of a trade-off, yes. One one hand you have a person with a brain controlling a cannon that can shoot in a decent arc - this can be great for keeping fighters off your tail, assisting the pilot, and/orhitting ships on a parallel course. On the other hand it can be very hard for the gunner to hit anything if the pilot flies as if it was a single person fighter.
The Y-Wing is interesting because you can aim front and shoot at what the pilot is shooting as well as being able to spin back and shoot at trailing targets. The drawback is the limit on aiming 'above' the fighter, as the turret can not pitch up too far.
The Aggressor turret is able to shoot out and above the ship as well as shooting behind at trailing ships, but is unable to aim forward to assist the pilot with forward targets.
The Krayt, though, has a turret that can do all of that. A turret gunner on a Krayt can fire any direction above the plane of the ship, as well as slightly below the horizon.
The biggest challenge still remains, no matter what ship used, how to effectively utilize a turret. The two standard uses are to (a) shoot with the pilot at targets forward and (b) shoot aft at targets coming up from behind. A third tactic is to use the gunner to hit adjacent targets such as a Gunboat while the pilot flies inits blindspot or specific Corvette components (Shields, for example).
I believe that the pilot puts him/herself and the gunner at risk, though, if there is too much of an attempt to fly 'for the gunner.' If all you are trying to do is stay level to let your gunner get a shot, you will much, much more damage than if you had no gunner. That kind of defeats the point, doesn't it?
As a gunner, I tend to hope that my pilot does not fly 'straight and level' too much, as it puts both of us danger. I tend to believe that leting the pilot 'do his thing' while the gunner shoots at targets of opportunity is the best way to go. There is certainly room for specific communications like 'Aim front' 'Cap ship run, target components' (or target a specific component) and other macro/hot-key fast chat.
Shona
PConsole
Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:11 am
#7
I've flown a few times in my YT with a turret manned and in my krayt. The YT is much easier to be an actual PILOT because you don't have guns. Occasionaly if as ship crosses my bow long enough I'll launch a missle at it.
Here's what I do: first I set the view out as far as possible. This allows me to see the turret and which way its pointing. When a gunner hits something, as long as you didn't select a target, the target beceomes yours as well. So now you know what he's shooting at and the turret direction and arc can give you an idea of exactly where its located even if you can't see it - this especially works well in the hood views above the ship. Always settle on a constant turn direction and speed (lets say style) and stay consistent so the gunner knows what to expect.
I'll announce if I'm going to do evasive maneuvers (if we're in trouble from either too many ships or ones staying in a blind spot too long) and this basically gives the signal to put down the stick and maybe even get out of the turret for a few seconds if need be.
Now for the gunner the real trick is to let go. Sometimes we can't stay on the ship until completion (depending on level) and have to wait for the next one to fly-by. Chasing it harldy ever proves effective unless, of course, its the last one out here.
The most fun I've had has been with a few customers up there (I keep my crafting supplies in the ship in a shipwright station and these days I only do custom work). I took them out sightseeing, stopped to do some business, whn we got attacked. We were in the back of the ship when they started pounding. They each took one of the turrets and we went to town. A couple tier 4s went down quick even though they hadn't had much turret experience.
With two turrets manned on the YT piloting becomes simply a matter of moving back into range. Much easier. I can actually just take ops if need be in the YT with the two guns manned and a decent re-charge on th shields.
Here's what I do: first I set the view out as far as possible. This allows me to see the turret and which way its pointing. When a gunner hits something, as long as you didn't select a target, the target beceomes yours as well. So now you know what he's shooting at and the turret direction and arc can give you an idea of exactly where its located even if you can't see it - this especially works well in the hood views above the ship. Always settle on a constant turn direction and speed (lets say style) and stay consistent so the gunner knows what to expect.
I'll announce if I'm going to do evasive maneuvers (if we're in trouble from either too many ships or ones staying in a blind spot too long) and this basically gives the signal to put down the stick and maybe even get out of the turret for a few seconds if need be.
Now for the gunner the real trick is to let go. Sometimes we can't stay on the ship until completion (depending on level) and have to wait for the next one to fly-by. Chasing it harldy ever proves effective unless, of course, its the last one out here.
The most fun I've had has been with a few customers up there (I keep my crafting supplies in the ship in a shipwright station and these days I only do custom work). I took them out sightseeing, stopped to do some business, whn we got attacked. We were in the back of the ship when they started pounding. They each took one of the turrets and we went to town. A couple tier 4s went down quick even though they hadn't had much turret experience.
With two turrets manned on the YT piloting becomes simply a matter of moving back into range. Much easier. I can actually just take ops if need be in the YT with the two guns manned and a decent re-charge on th shields.
PConsole
Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:12 am
#8
A little more elaboration on watching the turret. If I see it begins firing high and starts lowering more and more as it fires I will attempt a gentle roll with the turret movement as the target gets low enough to be out of range. Again, consistency here is important.
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