Pilot Archive
Thread: AI Needs some serious changes
Page 1 of 1
Bastilaa
Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:34 am
#1
OK so lastnight I switched to Imperial Pilot, so I could carry on towards my goal of doing all 9 pilot professions. I was 1100 Pilot and I decided to attack a Tier 4 B Wing, 5 minutes later and not a scratch on me it dies. So I figure hes big and slow so I pick a fight with an A Wing, 8 minutes later hes dead and I took 3 hits.
Ok there is something seriously wrong if a 1100 Pilot can take on and beat Tier 4 pilots, I'm half tempted to hit Kessel 
Naplam
Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:53 am
#3
Bastilaa wrote:OK so lastnight I switched to Imperial Pilot, so I could carry on towards my goal of doing all 9 pilot professions. I was 1100 Pilot and I decided to attack a Tier 4 B Wing, 5 minutes later and not a scratch on me it dies. So I figure hes big and slow so I pick a fight with an A Wing, 8 minutes later hes dead and I took 3 hits.Ok there is something seriously wrong if a 1100 Pilot can take on and beat Tier 4 pilots, I'm half tempted to hit Kessel
You should hit kessal i managed to do a bit of grinding there at that lvl, i think the reason why hte AI is so simple is because a lot of people play this game and not all of them are good at flying.
Bastilaa
Thu Jan 13, 2005 12:06 pm
#4
Ducimus wrote:
>>8 minutes later
weeee not fun.
Yeah that single Light Blaster slowly chipped away at his defenses
Edited for correct blaster type
Message Edited by Bastilaa on 01-13-2005 05:42 PM
Rowgue
Thu Jan 13, 2005 4:26 pm
#5
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. The fact that you already mastered one pilot tree excludes you from the sample group of begginer pilots that can take on tier 4's. Of course you can beat these guys, you have already been through the entire pilot tree and know the ins and outs of everything from the performance of your ship to your components to the behavior of the enemy AI.
Even with all of that experience (and probably all of the good droid programs too, since you already know what you're doing) it took you 8 minutes to finish off one of them. I would say that sounds about right. With that amount of time to take one it sounds like a lot of hitting and running and wearing them down. These are the same tactics that most people use with gunboats because for some reason they are the most powerful thing in the game (even more difficult to kill than the vette or star destroyer).
Now if a true tier one pilot came on here that wasn't using any droid programs, because he didn't really check them out yet or know how much they can help you, and had zero experience in piloting and said he immediately jumped in his starter ship and was going to kessel helping people with thier kill 30 imps/rebs mission then I would say you have something.
The AI is screwed up the pilot tree is way too easy to master, but I don't think your example goes anywhere near proving that. You were already a master pilot and have all the experience that comes along with that. The game does not make you surrender what you have learned from all those hours of flying, you still know how everything works you just have to level it again.
Bastilaa
Thu Jan 13, 2005 5:29 pm
#6
Rowgue wrote:
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. The fact that you already mastered one pilot tree excludes you from the sample group of begginer pilots that can take on tier 4's. Of course you can beat these guys, you have already been through the entire pilot tree and know the ins and outs of everything from the performance of your ship to your components to the behavior of the enemy AI.
Even with all of that experience (and probably all of the good droid programs too, since you already know what you're doing) it took you 8 minutes to finish off one of them. I would say that sounds about right. With that amount of time to take one it sounds like a lot of hitting and running and wearing them down. These are the same tactics that most people use with gunboats because for some reason they are the most powerful thing in the game (even more difficult to kill than the vette or star destroyer).
Now if a true tier one pilot came on here that wasn't using any droid programs, because he didn't really check them out yet or know how much they can help you, and had zero experience in piloting and said he immediately jumped in his starter ship and was going to kessel helping people with thier kill 30 imps/rebs mission then I would say you have something.
The AI is screwed up the pilot tree is way too easy to master, but I don't think your example goes anywhere near proving that. You were already a master pilot and have all the experience that comes along with that. The game does not make you surrender what you have learned from all those hours of flying, you still know how everything works you just have to level it again.
Well you have made a few assumptions and would like to clear those up.
This was my first time ever in a TIE fighter, and I was using the FREE begineer ship
I had no droid interface or droid programs running
What I was trying to show was in a basic bottom end TIE fighter I was able to stay behind and take out Tier 4 Rebel ships, yes pilot skill was involved but no matter how 'good' a pilot I might be I should not be able to kill Tier 4 ships in a newbie ship with no droid programs (or with Droid programs for that matter)
Also if when I was a Privteer I could kill them in under 1 minute in my Dunelizard at 1100, good pilot? I'm ok, AI need some work? for sure.
Message Edited by Bastilaa on 01-13-2005 04:32 PM
Kitoth
Thu Jan 13, 2005 6:21 pm
#7
Here's the thing.
You can solo any ship in JTL, at any level, if it doesn't have rear-firing weapons or wingmen. It's just a matter of time. The only challenge in JTL is when there are more than 1.
The starter TIE is very manuverable, more than any other you get a cert for, in my opinion. You're limited by mass, true, but it turns on a dime and accelerates/decelerates nicely.
I'm not saying AI isn't an issue (in beta I complained that all the devs did to make things harder was to beef up their Armor/HP/Shields, not improve the AI), but an experienced human pilot will always beat even the toughest computer AI, no matter the inequities of the ships involved. I mean, what can a computer possibly do if you get on their tail and stay there? Doesn't matter how they juke or how they manuever, if you can keep them in front of you despite what they do, they have no chance to win.
Rowgue
Thu Jan 13, 2005 11:22 pm
#8
Exactly Kitoth that is what I was pointing out. The example I gave was simply pointing out the advantages that you might have over someone that has never flown before. I made no assumptions that you were actually using all of them, simply that you knew how, when and what to use if you chose to, not a luxury novices have. The main factor in a 1 on 1 battle is the skill of the pilot ( and maybe to a lesser degree the speed and maneuverability of your ship).
As Kitoth pointed out if you are a decent enough pilot to stay on thier tail, what are they supposed to do. Yeah I can easily take a scyk or dunelizard out and kill tier 4's and 5's, in fact I sometimes do this when helping other people do their missions. I don't like flying my Krayt to help people on tier 3 missions because it just makes it too easy and un-exciting for both me and the guy who's mission it is.
The fact that it took you minutes to kill each one is very appropriate. If you were jumped by 3 of those tier 4 ships you wouldn't have a chance in the world of coming out alive, unless you happened to have a really fast level 1 engine and got out of there before they managed to get through your armor. Or as Kitoth mentioned try picking a fight with a TIE opressor and see how long that fight lasts in a starter ship.
I am not saying that the AI does not need some tweaking, because it does but this is not why. I think they took the arcade game approach to step ups in difficulty instead of trying to simulate pilots with better skills as they move up. It's like in a football game when you go from rookie to pro difficulty level. Do the players read coverages better, and throw the ball to the guy that's open more? No they just make every stat the AI has a little better, and every stat the user has a little worse. That doesn't make you have to use better technique to win, it just forces you to rely more and more on the holes in the AI. The same thing was done here, instead of actually making more advanced pilots dodge and weave more, and use more missles when they have you in thier sites, they just make the shields and weapons stronger as you go against tougher targets. That effectively makes no difference because you are also upgrading your equipment as you go up, so fighting against tier 4's in a nicely outfitted Rix is exactly the same as fighting tier 1's in the starter ship.
I'm merely trying to suggest that I don't think your example is the best way to point out how bad the AI is in JTL. I can not see any way they could adjust it so that killing a tier 4 in a starter ship is not possible. The only way they could would be to tweak all of the stats on the components (not just shields and armor either) for every tier ship both NPC and PC so that say tier 2 components max values on all stats were always below the minimum stat values for tier 3 components and then have components in each ship that are appropriate to thier tier level. This would be a complete overhall of the entire loot and component system as we know it and I don't see that happening any time soon. And even if they did this it still wouldn't solve the problem because I have been able to stay on the tail of much faster ships and pelt them like a hailstorm because they are too stupid to realize they are much faster than me and try to run away.
Page 1 of 1