Pilot Archive
Thread: Down with the PVP damage!!! /BangDrums
CeearemWareign wrote:
You miss one point with it, if you try a "I make a dead stop and shoot my enemy to parts" tacitc against a human being, he will not do you the favor to come into your firing area. I did a lot of pvp fighting with these lvl 1 guns already. Making a dead stop was a good way to die, when fighting against more manoverable fighters. Cause they can decelerate and accelerate much faster. So you make a dead stop fine. I will be behind you and sitting there shooting you to parts. IF you start your engins again i will have manovered away long before you have only half turned.
We tried all these combinations out. A bomber only had one chance, against an interceptor (we had privateer and alliance ships). Killing it in the first approach. If the intercpetor passed you only one time you never got it in front of your guns again.
I respect maneuverability a lot. But I also know the limitations of it. The dead stop tactic worked on the NPCs because they were stupid enough to continue the run in when the shots started landing. But the shots had started landing, which means they're being hit. Having the intelligence to break off the run honestly means very little if when you do so the score is now 9 shots remaining for me to destroy you and30 shots remaining for you to destroy me. And it will be 30 more shots simply because my heavier ship can hold a shield generator with a significantly higher shield regen rate, capable of repairing more damage then the shield generator in the smaller ship is capable of repairing.
Toning down damage is a simplistic solution that offers no real solution. It's not that simple to balance because it's not just a matter of how much damage can XXX ship do.
Ditolus wrote:
25percent is still not enough of a nerf on pvp damage. it needs to go somewhere around 75-90 percent. if the ground has 75 percent damage decrease then there's no reason space shoulnt either. longer dogfights equal a lot of fun. 4 second dogfights equal lameness
On the ground, everyone has equal or the potential to have equal HAM. The reudction on the ground simply forced everyone to buff and use foods.
The reverse is not true in space. The ships do not have equal stats. They don't have the potential for equal stats. And there's no buffing or food to equalize them. So a damage reduction would simply force everyone to use the most heavily armored and protected ship to have the best chance of winning.
The simplistic solution isn't going to work here. And quite honestly I doubt many people want the fast paced action of dogfighting slowed down to the 10 minute long bore battles between B-Wings, Aggressors and Krayts your simplistic solution would provide.
Rhysen wrote:
Ditolus wrote: 25percent is still not enough of a nerf on pvp damage. it needs to go somewhere around 75-90 percent. if the ground has 75 percent damage decrease then there's no reason space shoulnt either. longer dogfights equal a lot of fun. 4 second dogfights equal lameness
On the ground, everyone has equal or the potential to have equal HAM. The reudction on the ground simply forced everyone to buff and use foods.
The reverse is not true in space. The ships do not have equal stats. They don't have the potential for equal stats. And there's no buffing or food to equalize them. So a damage reduction would simply force everyone to use the most heavily armored and protected ship to have the best chance of winning.
No it wouldn't. Unlike in the ground game, in JTL if you want to have heavy armor and weapons, you are supposed tohave to give up manueverability and a small hit profile. This currently isn't the case though simply because even the lightest fighters are capable of dealing out more than enough damage to take down the heavily armored ships in only a handful of shots.
The simplistic solution isn't going to work here. And quite honestly I doubt many people want the fast paced action of dogfighting slowed down to the 10 minute long bore battles between B-Wings, Aggressors and Krayts your simplistic solution would provide.
Actually, the "simplistic" solution would work fine, assuming its not done to too massive of a degree. Further increasing the damage reduction for PvP doesn't instantaneously make armor and shields the only thing that matters. Its a sliding scale. As you increase the damage reduction, you slow move the balance point away from the light, manueverable interceptors, and bring it towards the larger, heavily armored fighters. Right now this point is FAR into the interceptor's side, and thus further damage reduction is needed to bring things into true balance. Personally I would say start by fixing Weapon Overload 3 and then increase the damage reduction be an additional 25%, and then see how things go from there.
i agree it should not be 1hit kills, but it shouldnt be 30 either. the big imballance right now is that my awing can have a shield with 70% the strength that a very heavy attack ship would have. so i would be in my awing taking 30 hits to kill a rhix while it takes him 20 hits to kill me. im going to get those 30 hits and he might hit me a few times but no where near as fast as im going to lay into him. as it is now its the first hit kills, and he has a chance to score that first hit (not likely but possible).
what i would like to see is me taking 5 hits to kill a heavily shielded opponent, where as he can still disable me with one shot (still not likely
god i love my awing)if they do nerf the damage more, then higher mass shields need a serious buff or the awing and the tie-adv are going to be even more untouchable.
i personaly LOVE that one hits kills me in my little awing. ive been dogfighting in online games for years and for some reason everytime i press "Z" and see a pc get targeted, my heart races like no other game ive ever played. its intense knowing that if i mess up once im toast. but i know that not everyone likes flying on the razors edge like i do, and i agree that its unballanced since shields dont even matter right now.
but PLEASE dont make it take forever to kill someone. light fighters should still eat it in one or two hits, but heavy ships need to be able to take a pounding. i think a i hit kill on the tie-int/adv and awing with a 5hit kill on the heavies is a nice ballance.
Message Edited by S-1-l2-H-C on 12-20-2004 02:06 PM
Imaridril wrote:
Rhysen wrote:
Ditolus wrote: 25percent is still not enough of a nerf on pvp damage. it needs to go somewhere around 75-90 percent. if the ground has 75 percent damage decrease then there's no reason space shoulnt either. longer dogfights equal a lot of fun. 4 second dogfights equal lameness
On the ground, everyone has equal or the potential to have equal HAM. The reudction on the ground simply forced everyone to buff and use foods.
The reverse is not true in space. The ships do not have equal stats. They don't have the potential for equal stats. And there's no buffing or food to equalize them. So a damage reduction would simply force everyone to use the most heavily armored and protected ship to have the best chance of winning.
No it wouldn't. Unlike in the ground game, in JTL if you want to have heavy armor and weapons, you are supposed tohave to give up manueverability and a small hit profile. This currently isn't the case though simply because even the lightest fighters are capable of dealing out more than enough damage to take down the heavily armored ships in only a handful of shots.
The simplistic solution isn't going to work here. And quite honestly I doubt many people want the fast paced action of dogfighting slowed down to the 10 minute long bore battles between B-Wings, Aggressors and Krayts your simplistic solution would provide.
Actually, the "simplistic" solution would work fine, assuming its not done to too massive of a degree. Further increasing the damage reduction for PvP doesn't instantaneously make armor and shields the only thing that matters. Its a sliding scale. As you increase the damage reduction, you slow move the balance point away from the light, manueverable interceptors, and bring it towards the larger, heavily armored fighters. Right now this point is FAR into the interceptor's side, and thus further damage reduction is needed to bring things into true balance. Personally I would say start by fixing Weapon Overload 3 and then increase the damage reduction be an additional 25%, and then see how things go from there.
Ditolus wrote:
25percent is still not enough of a nerf on pvp damage. it needs to go somewhere around 75-90 percent. if the ground has 75 percent damage decrease then there's no reason space shoulnt either. longer dogfights equal a lot of fun. 4 second dogfights equal lameness
Uh, where you been? SOE is re-doing ground PvP because IT IS BROKEN, and you want to space PvP to be like ground PvP?! And long dog fights = long amounts of boredom.
Burnham wrote:Actually yes, long dogfights would be fun. The ground game is not broken because of the 75% pvp damage reduction. You never played the ground game before that reduction was put in place. Without that reduction, every fight would be over in one shot...just like it is in space.
I've been playing since launch and I did like 1-2 shot kills, it was quick and dirty, not to mention it reduced lag by sending folks to the cloning center.