Pilot Archive
Thread: Sorry if this has been flogged to death but...question concerning e pulse
ajag
Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:08 am
#53
Ramona, I have no doubts of your tests nor your abilities, all I am saying is that it does affect normal droid commands. I tried it last night and it wil not let you run cap to shield shun for at lesat 13 seconds in my case. My droid interface has a speed of 15 so I am assuming that if you got a faster droid interface you will be able to run it cap to shield shun faster. Also, I said test and gather data on ALL droid commands and specials. I am not against balancing as long as it makes sense, but nerfing one command whiel other there will stay out of balance makes no sense. By doing it one command at the time the nerfing will never stop.
Every time a new threat comes along, instead of people trying to figure out how to adapt their tactics, the first thing that comes to their mind is how to remove the other person's advantage so they do not haveto adapt. ok Fine, a guy comes in a new heavy syck and kills you, what is the big deal? that he/she used e-pulse 3? what if a guy comes in a syck and wastes you with blasters? is there a difference then? are you going to call on getting rid of the heavy syck after you are done with epulse? see what I am getting at? balancing one thing at the time does not help. A re-balance is in order but to many aspects of JTL, not just a 1 command. I say gather data on EVERYTHING first, then we can discuss balance, not before.
Katzentatze
Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:12 am
#54
/cheer for the Shofixti.. StarControl was Awsome in its time.
Ramona_Garcia
Wed Jun 15, 2005 2:39 am
#55
ajag wrote:
Ramona, I have no doubts of your tests nor your abilities, all I am saying is that it does affect normal droid commands. I tried it last night and it wil not let you run cap to shield shun for at lesat 13 seconds in my case. My droid interface has a speed of 15 so I am assuming that if you got a faster droid interface you will be able to run it cap to shield shun faster. Also, I said test and gather data on ALL droid commands and specials. I am not against balancing as long as it makes sense, but nerfing one command whiel other there will stay out of balance makes no sense. By doing it one command at the time the nerfing will never stop.
Every time a new threat comes along, instead of people trying to figure out how to adapt their tactics, the first thing that comes to their mind is how to remove the other person's advantage so they do not haveto adapt. ok Fine, a guy comes in a new heavy syck and kills you, what is the big deal? that he/she used e-pulse 3? what if a guy comes in a syck and wastes you with blasters? is there a difference then? are you going to call on getting rid of the heavy syck after you are done with epulse? see what I am getting at? balancing one thing at the time does not help. A re-balance is in order but to many aspects of JTL, not just a 1 command. I say gather data on EVERYTHING first, then we can discuss balance, not before.
Ihave a heavy scyk. And my first thought was not "oh... let's nerf epulse", it was "Oh... I can waste 4 players at once, or more! And if I get a friend to fly with me we can finish off entire flights by ourselves... hmm... if we optimise that, have some scyk or khyraz fly in first, epulsing the enemy, then mop the rest up... wait a minute... is that fun anymore, playing the "I can push my button faster than you can" game?"
II know how droid programs work, and I know weapon overload 3 is bugged. I know about pvp, both duels and larger battles.I have no trouble with someone in a heavy scyk shooting me down with blasters, or missileing me, I can deal with that. I can't effectively deal with people pushing epulse buttons if they want to get close to me. Doesn't take a brainiac to figure that out after seeing how long you have to take down one single good awing with a group of pilots.
You want data on other pilot specials and droid commands? What have you been doing so far?
Droid programs are all well documented and experienced.
Neutral pilot commands?
IFF scramble does not work on pvp pilots
E-thrust resets droid programs, and does add less speed than engine overload, so useless unless you need to reset your droid programs.
Pirate trap calls tier 1 pirates - no one cares about them in PvP, and only a few in PvE.
What else is there?
ajag
Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:02 am
#56
Why are you getting so hyper about this? Is it wrong that I want to collect as much data as possible before even bringing up the topic of balancing? sure you now the freelancer commands, but what about the rebel and imps? I have not been collecting data on anything that is true, but then again, I am not the one calling for balances either. I am not protecting e-pulse, I am trying to protect the game from more damage from nerfs that are not needed or done carelessly. I just want everyone to hold their horses, let their emotions go and discuss reasonably and with an open mind which I do not think harms anyone nor it is a bad way to have a conversation. By me doing a simple test last night I found out that you cannot run shun to shields for at least 13 seconds after running epulse 3. That completely contradicts what was said yesterday which I think was 3 seconds. It was also said that epulse 3 only drained shields and other people said that it drains both, capacitor and shields.
Maybe these commands are well documented for some, but not for all people. I think even you said that it only took like 3 seconds to run cap to shields shun when in fact that is wrong. Data gets distorted with time so ther eis no harm in collecting it again. Maybe you are happy with having another useless special in your arsenal, but I am not. Although I had never use epulse until last night for my simple test, I would like to know that I have some other tools at my disposal and not just useless crap.
I just want patience and organization, but if you all want just quick nerfing go ahead and send the game to hell.
ajag
Wed Jun 15, 2005 3:14 am
#57
Slysix wrote:
This is how epulse works.Basically with epulse 3,your taking outan opponentssheilds by taking out your ownsheilds.
Now to go through the armour you use your capacitor energy. If pilots use the armour appropriate for their ship size instead of sacrificing them for the larger gun they will survive an epulse 3. A good Capacitor willhave1800 energy. Mark V armour is what... 2500?
One of the problems your getting with epulse 3insta killing in PvP is that people are still sporting pre-nerf sheilds.4k sheilds will kill any other ship except those sporting pre nerf sheilds.
So I beleive the balance issue is not with the epulse function. It's the pre nerf sheilds.
See what I mean about different opinions/tests/results? Thank you very much Slysix for your information. Very helpful indeed. Now I will propose testing epulse with a standard shield and capacitor against a ship that is using proper armor. Maybe this test will bring up a different view on this command.
psikobunny
Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:04 am
#58
ajag wrote:
Ramona, I have no doubts of your tests nor your abilities, all I am saying is that it does affect normal droid commands. I tried it last night and it wil not let you run cap to shield shun for at lesat 13 seconds in my case. My droid interface has a speed of 15 so I am assuming that if you got a faster droid interface you will be able to run it cap to shield shun faster.
You're wrong. I don't know how to say it any other way, but you're wrong. I use epulse3 and then CtSS within seconds of it regularly. As in at least once per Black Sun duty mission (1-5 of those a week), just for grins. I have a DI that's slower than your's and I'll say it again, you're W-R-O-N-G.
psikobunny
Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:06 am
#59
ajag wrote:
See what I mean about different opinions/tests/results? Thank you very much Slysix for your information. Very helpful indeed. Now I will propose testing epulse with a standard shield and capacitor against a ship that is using proper armor. Maybe this test will bring up a different view on this command.
Did you even read about Kitten's test? it was done using a normal shield and cap. Yeah we know prenerf shields are out there, and yeah they would do more damage in an epulse, but the test already listed was with normal gear...
TomoRainer
Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:18 am
#60
Actually, those tests were run with very poor gear--500 shield HP front and back, about 1300 total capacitor energy (when overloaded). Compare that to a PVP setup, where the shields are going to run about 1900-2550 front/back and a capacitor could have anywhere from 1600-3000 energy when overloaded, and the damage output gets pretty obscene.
I do intend to test this more myself soon, but the underlying concept--an ability that hits automatically for heavy damage, with no room for counter--strikes me as deeply flawed. The overlying mechanics aren't terribly important when the foundation is so out of whack.
As a sort of corollary to the epulse thing, we should probably take a look at Nebula Blast. I expect it has similar problems, if within a more limited set of conditions for use.
I do intend to test this more myself soon, but the underlying concept--an ability that hits automatically for heavy damage, with no room for counter--strikes me as deeply flawed. The overlying mechanics aren't terribly important when the foundation is so out of whack.
As a sort of corollary to the epulse thing, we should probably take a look at Nebula Blast. I expect it has similar problems, if within a more limited set of conditions for use.
ajag
Wed Jun 15, 2005 4:50 am
#61
A lot of you are getting hyper for nothing. I never said I was oposed to balancing, I said I was opposed to careless nerfing. ALL I want is more data before a decision was made. As far as I know, not test data has been put on this particular thread. Having data spread out over different threads just causes confusion and mis interpretation. All I ask is have it all in one place.
Psikobunny... I said that is what I saw yesterday. Either you have a very good droid interface with a speed of 3, or my char and all my equipment is bugged. Just to give you the benefit of the doubt I will do it again tonight.
Tomo, that is exactly what I am asking for. Taking a good look at nebula blast is worth lt. If that command indeed is out of balance aswell, then we can bring both at the same time, into balance accordingly with the right proportions. However, balancing one of them now and then a few months down the road the other will just cause more inbalance.
People.... Flaming is how irrational people try impose their views on others. I never called anyone a liar and have not started fighting with anyone. I just posted what I saw form a small test last night and asked for more research to be done before arriving to a conclusion.
Although a lot of you are great pilots it does not mean that your word has to be taken blindlesly when taking a decision. You are not right all the time and you do not have all the answers. Do what smart people do when trying to make a decision... collect the data, present it in an organized and coherent way, discusse it and only then come to a conclusion.
Ramona_Garcia
Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:11 am
#62
We have data here in this thread - I posted the stats on my shields and capacitor used. We tested it with ships using mark IV shields or better as targets, and armor. At ranges from 300 to 100 meters. Please, read the thread entirely, then ask what else you think you need to know, not just some blanket "I need more data".
ajag
Wed Jun 15, 2005 5:25 am
#63
Ramona_Garcia wrote:
We have data here in this thread - I posted the stats on my shields and capacitor used. We tested it with ships using mark IV shields or better as targets, and armor. At ranges from 300 to 100 meters. Please, read the thread entirely, then ask what else you think you need to know, not just some blanket "I need more data".
We all need more data, I was not just talking about myself. Do you think just your tests are enough to make a change that will impact the WHOLE pilot comunity? I very much doubt it. Sure, that will get the command balanced for you and people with similar config as your but what about the rest? I am not hiding under any blanket, I am just trying to slow down a process that should be slowed down. But if you think your data is enough, and you are willing to take responsabilities for the outcome, go ahead and just use your data.... however, I bet anything that the outcome will not be good. I am just trying to help. at the end of the day, this will also affect you.
Shrendyc
Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:02 am
#64
If you're going to get something removed from my piloting profession, then at least give me back something that is useful. Right now the privateers have very little in the way of specials that are worthwhile.
Ramona_Garcia
Wed Jun 15, 2005 7:29 am
#65
PvE, freelancers have IFF, very useful to save your skin. And Epulse works in PvE as well.
PvP wise, not many professions have a useful pilot command, closest would be the reloading opportunity an derapirs rebels have.