Pilot Archive
Thread: Firing Patterns: Truth or Myth?
Phizuol wrote:
Rhu wrote:But if they are already doing four shots for the b-wing, that shouldn't be that much more of a load. It isn't like it is adding an order of complexity to hit calculations or anything.
Hell, I don't seem to recall much server-side lag when going up against the Star Destroyer (before the client-side horror), or from charging into a nest of six friendly gunboats with a dozen interceptors on my tail...
Well the real irony is that they already ARE doing collision detection on the graphical bolts. Where your graphical bolts land cause shield flare and the red X when you shoot friendlies. This is independant of actual damage.
Hitting a ship with your graphical bolts but not your "line of effect" causes shield flare but causes no damage. Alternatively, hitting a ship with your line of effect but not the bolts (like in my 2nd screenshot where the bolts go around the A-wing) causes no shield flare but does cause damage. The conclusion here is that the game does pay attention to where your lasers land.
So now we know the cause of shield flare.. its a representation of the graphical bolts hitting the hitbox. Shield flare may or may not accompany a damage hit.
So then the question again, why did they do it this way? Why does damage (from some ships) come from the center of the ship? I believe its because of the AI. How hard would it be to program the AI to understand the firing box of every ship? Wouldn't it just be a lot easier on the AI if every ship fired from the center? Well, that's my guess anyway.
the more i think about it, the more i think it's to reduce server side calculations. you can do the bolts hitting the model client side. who cares if it's wrong or right. but dmg calculation needs to be server side, cut down on costs and just use 1 point. makes me wonder why not make the b-wing 4 guns out of 2 slots with a center hit though, it'd increase the useability of the ship dramatically.
But, i got my royal guard tie a week ago 1 dayafter i aced SS, and was wondering if u actually do more dmg with 1 gun with the 4 bolts vs, lets say the JSF with its 2 guns, or is the 4 bolt a graphic with a large hit zone, or do the individual bolts actually do dmg themselves
Jimko2 wrote:I feel a bit like a newb asking this for afinal word(SS ace, soloed ace mission)
But, i got my royal guard tie a week ago 1 dayafter i aced SS, and was wondering if u actually do more dmg with 1 gun with the 4 bolts vs, lets say the JSF with its 2 guns, or is the 4 bolt a graphic with a large hit zone, or do the individual bolts actually do dmg themselves
Heh..your not doing more damage. Your just able to keep your guns pointed at the target longer thus able to land more shots on the target.
Worst spread i've seen so far with one gun is the Krayt's wing mounted hard point. I can't seem to hit anything with those on purpose. Mind you, if I don't actually try to hit with them, they hit. Meh.
Jimko2 wrote:
I feel a bit like a newb asking this for afinal word(SS ace, soloed ace mission)
But, i got my royal guard tie a week ago 1 dayafter i aced SS, and was wondering if u actually do more dmg with 1 gun with the 4 bolts vs, lets say the JSF with its 2 guns, or is the 4 bolt a graphic with a large hit zone, or do the individual bolts actually do dmg themselves
the answer to this is no. the JSF with its two guns do more damage combined than your one gun on the RGI.
A long time ago this topic was discussed. It had a different point in that it wanted a convergence for guns. But after thorough testing, by a pilot who's name I cannot remember, it was concluded that a lack of convergence for the weapons on ships was actually to a pilots benfit. The weapon spread on a krayt can give you a greater chance of hitting a target for the simple fact that it has no convergence. all the bolts go straight off the weapon and toward the general direction of the target. say your initial center guns did not hit but the target flew into the path of your guns on the wings. this is also to your benefit as it does not matter if both bolts hit your target the bolt that hits will still do the range of damage that your gun is allowed.
and to the question of do the individual bolts do damage themselves. the answer to that is no. it does not matter which bolt hits the target the weapon will still do the damage that is in the range of the weapon. lets say for example you have a weapon that does 2000-4000 damage. if one bolt hits it DOES NOT do 500-1000 points of damage it deals damage in the range of 2000-4000.
now lets say you are using the jsf and the both guns do 2-4k dmg each. if one bolt from each gun hits one will deal 2-4k and the other will deal its 2-4k dmg.
i hope that answered your question without confusing you. if you have any questions PM i'll get back to you
actually the point of this thread is that the # of bolts that hit don't matter at all. you can hit with no bolts, and do full damage because it's not the bolts that do damage, but a point in-between a spread firing pattern that does.
the real thing to be thinking about in a spread gun ship (aside from the b-wing, but it's not really a spread gun) is hitting not with either bolt, but the center point in between the bolt's spread. with a krayt, since the wing mounts are 1 gun, it's still essentially a centerfire ship. this is why convergence doesn't matter. OR it gives convergence supporters a new arguement, that since bolts don't matter, perhaps for visual assistance alone the guns should converge.
but as we've said before, some people find it easier to hit with a spread gun ship. that's part of the reason the myth of the "one bolt hits for full dmg" perpetuated i'm betting. personally i find it much more difficult.
you know, i really want to find the convergence thread rapax talked about, where the dev posted an explanation. if a dev got the ball rolling on this whole "one bolt hits for full dmg" thing...
1 small question 1 on the he shoots link the shield is on 8% but on the its no good its at 9% and the img on the targe thigny is been roated 90 digres while the ship you shot is in the exact same place
Phizuol wrote:
Update:
Ok, I did some more testing and here is what I came up with. Please note all screenshots are at full size so you have been warned.
First I repeated my test. I disabled an A-Wing and lined it up dead center.
Lined up
Next I start to fire. You can see that the shots definitely straddle the A-Wing. Despite that hits are still being scored.
He shoots, he scores!
So that would seem to confirm it. At least in the case of the ARC the REAL shot comes from the crosshairs.
So now I had more questions. I can see that a shot at the crosshair will count, but does the wide spread of my gun give me an advantage? So I found another A-Wing and did almost the same thing except I leaned to the side so that my bolt hit the A-Wing directly.
He shoots....
Following the shot the shields flare up but NO damage is scored.
Its no good!
So in fact the "Firing Pattern" is 100% myth when it comes to the ARC and I suspect there are other ships that are the same way. What I find VERY interesting, however, is that when the bolt hits directly the shield DOES light up but that does not mean a hit was scored. THIS has been a source of frustration to me since day 1 of my pilot career. At least now I understand why. A "false" hit with the bolt will cause the shields to light up but only a true hit will score damage.