Pilot Archive
Thread: Petition: Make PvP Death in Space free of Decay
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quadpers0n
Fri Aug 26, 2005 9:30 am
#40
SheenaBrelya wrote:
For those that want to see Decay as a system tool removed, how would you prefer to see the system try to remove older legacy components that are no longer balanced in the combat system?
While some exploited components can be taken care of the same way that zero mass ones were, the ones I'm more concerned about are the many components that were looted prior to loot table changes, reward components whose values were lowered, and bugs/exploits that created unbalanced components early in JtL history. Since "fixing" them into more balanced values may be considered impossible or unfair in a lot of cases, how should the system remove them?
Another question I have is do you feel that a starship component of any kind should eventually wear out due to use? I expect my Hard Drive to eventually wear out from use, I expect my Transmission to eventually wear out from use, the game system has my Armor and Weapons wear out from use - why should starship components be different? Because it isn't fun otherwise? I simply can't accept that argument as the sole reason to remove the only sink that handles starship component usage.
Shona
decay as a mechanism does not remove imbalanced parts as it is now. it never has, and it never will, EXCEPT when said parts are employed by idiots.
example:
i am soon to posses 3 "perfect" guns. IE 5k dmg 39k mass, .360 speed, .83/.83 etc. etc. those guns will NEVER decay to uselessness, not in 5 years of playing JTL. why? because it would suck if they did, being as they were so meticulously and painstakingly put together, AND the mechanics aren't in place to allow them to decay to uselessness anyway. i never die outside of DS, because there simply is no challenge in PVE for me, considering the limitations of AI, and the ships we currently have, there never will be a PVE challenge to this game. *IF* deep space had decay, i would use a ship that never died there. if that was impossible i would likely stop playing under the current system because it's NOT fun to work for so long to find a part that fits so perfectly on your ship only to have it break. no other game has a mechanism like that, not even the ground game. on the ground i can buy an ADK for a priceless piece of equipment like this.
how about another example?
i have a prenerf DI. no amount of decay, no amount of deaths, no amount of anything will ever decay that prenerf DI to uselessness. why? because the current mechanisms allow nothing to get lower than 10/10. since a DI does not use overcharge commands it will never be removed out of the game, save from accidential or intentional deletion.
what about exploited 4k/4k shields? if you are holding your breath waiting for these shields to decay out of circulation, youregoing to pass out. exploited shields will be in this game until the devs physically remove them, OR they are deleted by a player. otherwise people will be using them the day before the server shuts down.
i could go on and on, but the fact remains. decay now does not do what you are saying it is in place for, not even close. people who die alot due to PVP in normal zones use components that are mediocre, in my opinion taking a valuable aspect of JTL (variable equipment) out of the normal zone PVP equation, or limiting that valuable aspect to deep space alone. that's all decay does.
now, is your arguement really that decay SHOULD function to remove "imbalanced" equipment from the game? well then we need a new mechanic. but believe me, if you try to suggest to anyone that decay needs to be upped, or that repairs in DS should be removed, or any other mechanisms like that, players will be up in arms. i hear what you are saying, that decay as an idea should function to keep the game in balance, but most players think that idea sucks.
people should not have to pay the price for SOE's lack of QA.
people should not have to pay the price because some players feel they shouldn't hold on to their painstakenly aquired equipment.
Message Edited by quadpers0n on 08-26-2005 11:32 AM
Message Edited by quadpers0n on 08-26-2005 11:36 AM
XakTsaroth
Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:03 am
#41
I really have to concur with the no decay idea for space PvP. It should be like the ground game in this aspect. I find a number of 3333 pilots for example that would like to space PvP and simply don't because they cannot enter DS with allies to do so and let's face it - most folks do not PvP outside of DS for fear of decay. The GCW needs alkl the help it can get to keep the game exciting. It is a focal point of Star Wars - star and wars are key here for anyone that has not had thier coffe yet. This would definately encourage more PvP and players willing to go overt in other areas of space.
I sympathize with shipwrights. SImply there should be another mechanic to give them business. Wear and tear on condition resulting from use as we have with weapons would not be bad. Itwould be gradual hopefully and agood dealslower for ship components than for weapons though and if they have RE ability to increase condition that would be good also.
Also, devs should really fix that annoying bug of declaring as a neutral pilot prior to entering DS and then not being able to. The rebel station gives a stupid message about not having enough prestige - I have over 7million and the neutral station says that it will not help rebels. If I am overt in Kessel then looking to go to DS I have to land first - then I can hop to Dath to go through neutral station. Really silly and I don't believe it was always this way. When I go to DS I can only choose Rebel anyway but regardless even if I could choose sides as a truly neutral (I'm not since I'm rebel on ground) once declared the faction station should allow you to pass to DS.
Xak Tsaroth
He who learns also teaches...
JanuHull
Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:16 am
#42
Starson wrote:
Oh and just to get more flamesI think there should be friendly fire (its foolish to cut in frount of your wingman when they are fireing on an enemy)....and and.....collision damage. I see pilots jousting with an enemy and just flying right thru said enemy....silly just plane silly.
I'm with you there.
SheenaBrelya
Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:48 am
#43
quadpers0n wrote:
decay as a mechanism does not remove imbalanced parts as it is now. it never has, and it never will, EXCEPT when said parts are employed by idiots.
Nor did I say otherwise. Decay as a theory is what I find to be a necessary part of the system. I agree that it is thoroughly broken, but what solution have you brought up? Remove it? While that may make things more "fun," it solves nothing about what the problem really is - Decay as it functions now is not having the desired effect.
Why not come up with a way for Decay to be a proper way for components to be worn out with use, instead of a PvP inhibitor?
Shona
quadpers0n
Fri Aug 26, 2005 11:10 am
#44
i'll tell you why not, for the same reason decay at the moment doesn't have the desired effect.
you think nothing going below 10/10 is an accident?
no, it's by design. decay as a mechanism to achieve balance is a flawed system. like i said twice above it's a concoction to allieviate jealous player's complaints, and to keep shipwrights deluded. players HATE it. they've hated it since day 1 of SWG and protested until it was removed from the game entirely for PVP. people with awesome weapons circumvented decay with use by not using their titanic weapons until it mattered, OR only when camping a mob assuring them of a loot worthwhile enough so that they could eventually get better guns.
now, in the ground game, decay is a thing of the past entirely.
why? because players hate it. so no, there's no reason to come up with a solution because there isn't a problem. you aren't ever going to achieve "balance" by implementing a mechanic players think sucks all you will do is make people unhappy at the top of the food chain and at the bottom, and force players to come up with other ways to circumvent attempts to control their equipment. the end result will be enough player complaints that eventually space ADKs are created. why go down that road?
i understand what you are saying, and where you are coming from. i don't agree though, and the playerbase doesn't agree either. that's why the ground game works the way it does now, that's why things stop at 10/10.
the only reason decay is in the game now is to delude people. the illusion of decay. the side effect of this is PVP in non DS zones suffers.
Raptor2k1
Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:33 pm
#45
I think the current system is actually the biggest problem. Let's face the facts: They spent a month testing it in beta. Everyone and their dog said JTL was being rushed and was in no way ready for release (ironic, isn't it?) There's got to be a much more intuitive/fun way to handle things without trivializing everything. Maybe that deserves it's own brainstorming thread? Oh well.
Sigh.
Raptor2k1
Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:25 pm
#46
I'll second that motion!
Hehe, I always lovedsmashing intoshieldless TIE's in X-Wing. Just put all shields forward and ramming speed!
Slysix
Sat Aug 27, 2005 9:32 am
#47
quadpers0n wrote:i'll tell you why not, for the same reason decay at the moment doesn't have the desired effect.you think nothing going below 10/10 is an accident?no, it's by design. decay as a mechanism to achieve balance is a flawed system. like i said twice above it's a concoction to allieviate jealous player's complaints, and to keep shipwrights deluded. players HATE it. they've hated it since day 1 of SWG and protested until it was removed from the game entirely for PVP. people with awesome weapons circumvented decay with use by not using their titanic weapons until it mattered, OR only when camping a mob assuring them of a loot worthwhile enough so that they could eventually get better guns.now, in the ground game, decay is a thing of the past entirely.why? because players hate it. so no, there's no reason to come up with a solution because there isn't a problem. you aren't ever going to achieve "balance" by implementing a mechanic players think sucks all you will do is make people unhappy at the top of the food chain and at the bottom, and force players to come up with other ways to circumvent attempts to control their equipment. the end result will be enough player complaints that eventually space ADKs are created. why go down that road?i understand what you are saying, and where you are coming from. i don't agree though, and the playerbase doesn't agree either. that's why the ground game works the way it does now, that's why things stop at 10/10.the only reason decay is in the game now is to delude people. the illusion of decay. the side effect of this is PVP in non DS zones suffers.
Actually if you go below 39/39 on any of your components your doing something seriously wrong....
One should NEVER run into the problem of not being able to run ANY droid commands even if you've been blown up 5000 times...and still using the same components...
All everyone has to do is think about it for 'a bit' and they'll figure out how...
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