Pilot Archive

Thread: Poor Poor FireSpray..........

silverlady
Wed Sep 21, 2005 7:09 am
#14






Coran_Sienar wrote:





MasterSad wrote:
Dev's should have implement mass capacity per ship component slot. Then many problems would be resolved with much less struggle.






I'd prefer an innate damage reduction modifier based upon chassis mass, myself.




I have thought for a long time that if SOE does do a space balance pass, chassis modifiers will be part of the result. Mass alone works to a certain extent for balance, but it's not enough, really. A combination of mass and chassis modifiers (for weapons, shields, and armor for certain, but maybe engine speed as well, but not PYR) would work well to bring the heavier ships back into a competitive PvPstance in the game. The heavier ships should be somewhat feared by someone in a snub fighter, and notjust because of the missles they carry, but also because of them. This is not the case, currently.


Chassis modifiers serve this function better than mass or RE level modifiers for ship slots because it retains the *pack as much as you can* into the ship tinkering that most of us quite enjoy. If you say that an A-wing can use a RE level 5 weapon at the maximum, and a shield that yields no more than 1200 front/back, I can almost promise that you won't see them flying anymore...even Leaph might have to give up on the A-wing, were that to come to pass. With chassis modifiers, you still want to try to get that level 7 quickfire, or that level 8 RE weapon in there, it just won't be as effective as it currently is.


On topic: I don't own one, but to me the Firespray looks to be a good balance of firepower, defense, ordnance, and mobility. To be perfectly honest, I would not be surprised if they became much more popular if WO3 is fixed.


RedOnedi
Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:00 am
#15

I love my Firespray. It is my PvE ship of choice, even though I own a Krayt. I just can't fly that thing, for some reason. Once I have my weapon and engine RE's finally complete, I am sure it will be the ship that I fly 99% of the time.


Maybe I'm just weird, since the Krayt and Firespray have the same chassis responsiveness, but I would swear that the Firespray handles better.


Domingo


imppilot421
Wed Sep 21, 2005 8:45 am
#16






droid327 wrote:

Whats the mass on the new elite POB components like? I forget....


I think it would be an equitable arrangement, if you could fit maybe 1-2 POB parts on a Firespray and still have room for standard components in the rest, to count them as "pob compatible" for those parts. If not,maybe give them a little mass boost so they're somewhere between large fighters (~200-250k) and full POBs (5M) They're still rare enough that it wouldnt be overpowered (like the easy-to-get JSF and Belbullab), and youd get to use some railguns or high powered shields to compensate for the sluggish handling and large hitbox to help give some incentive to try and find them.


Like they said, the KSE is not a fighter







Good luck fitting a 250k mass part into a 212k mass fighter (if they don't increase its mass).
Ralen-Sharr
Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:15 am
#17






Coran_Sienar wrote:
The Firespray is pretty useful for Rebel pilots (pre-RotW) because there was no other heavy fighter in the Rebel arsenal. But the Krayt and Oppressor perform about the same in maneuverability while retaining distinct advantages in payload.





The B-wing has always been around and has the firespray beat hands-down


4 weapon slots to the firesprays 2


2 for 2 on ord


240k mass vs 21?


and it's a smaller target, although I am sure a firespray handles better than a b-wing


give the firespray 3 or 4 guns, keep it's manuverability and it might be worth using


Either that or increase the drop rate of disks to 10-100 times it's current value, as it stands the firespray is nothing but a showpeice IMO, the mini-pob idea I think could be very workable, leave all the stats the same but give it an interior and repair panels and it becomes a worthwhile ship.


Think about the pvp implications of a ship that has a group of 2-3 ppl just running around inside repairing everything as you damage it.


If you flew the ship solo, nothing about it would really change, you can still get repairs at a station, so it becomes a very flexible craft





Revenant-1 of the 607'th New Avalon Fighter Wing
Greased wook in an a-wing
Has solo'd Cyssk in an A-wing
RedOnedi
Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:30 am
#18






Ralen-Sharr wrote:


Either that or increase the drop rate of disks to 10-100 times it's current value, as it stands the firespray is nothing but a showpeice IMO, the mini-pob idea I think could be very workable, leave all the stats the same but give it an interior and repair panels and it becomes a worthwhile ship.

Think about the pvp implications of a ship that has a group of 2-3 ppl just running around inside repairing everything as you damage it.


If you flew the ship solo, nothing about it would really change, you can still get repairs at a station, so it becomes a very flexible craft







I'm sorry, but I think I might have a hard time paying another player (let alone more than one), to just come up with me in my Firespray to do nothing but repair my ship...it's hard enough to get folks into a regular POB when they have the chance to gun, as well as repair.


And, it already is a flexible craft...loaded properly, you have an AI killer, and a decent PvP machine. I highly doubt that people like Adonis would agree with anyone that says that the Firespray is *useless,* as some claim.


In order for ships like the Firespray and the B-wing to shine, three things are needed, and in this order:


1) Pilot skill


2) *Decent* to uber equipment


3)Use of proper tactics in all engagements


With all three of these in place, it becomes a wicked, wicked ship. I will say that it does not do any one thing better than any other ship...because it does not. However, it can do everything rather well. If I only had 2 slots for ships in my datapad, one being for a POB and one for a fighter...I would probably choose my Firespray. Vaksai being a very close second.


These are all just my opinions, though.


Domingo


Ralen-Sharr
Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:44 am
#19

I agree with you on the it doesen't do any one thing better

Just look at the investment to return ratio, they are incredibly hard to get and they aren't a cut above the rest


I think one of those things should change.

If JSF's/ Bel-22's were as rare as firesprays, I don't think that as many ppl would complain about them



Revenant-1 of the 607'th New Avalon Fighter Wing
Greased wook in an a-wing
Has solo'd Cyssk in an A-wing
PaceNebulon
Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:47 am
#20






Ralen-Sharr wrote:

I agree with you on the it doesen't do any one thing better

Just look at the investment to return ratio, they are incredibly hard to get and they aren't a cut above the rest


I think one of those things should change.

If JSF's/ Bel-22's were as rare as firesprays, I don't think that as many ppl would complain about them






/agree





Pace Nebulon+Stealth+
...has mastered the Pilot profession
TIE Interceptor Guide to PvP
"Your generic TIE grunt is just plain suicidal. And the TIE Defender jockey is bloodthirsty. But the TIE Interceptor pilot, he's suicidal and bloodthirsty. When you see a squad of those maniacs flying your way, you'd better hope your hyperdrive is operational." - Kyle Katarn

Coran_Sienar
Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:50 am
#21



Ralen-Sharr wrote:


Coran_Sienar wrote:
The Firespray is pretty useful for Rebel pilots (pre-RotW) because there was no other heavy fighter in the Rebel arsenal. But the Krayt and Oppressor perform about the same in maneuverability while retaining distinct advantages in payload.


The B-wing has always been around and has the firespray beat hands-down

4 weapon slots to the firesprays 2

2 for 2 on ord

240k mass vs 21?

and it's a smaller target, although I am sure a firespray handles better than a b-wing

give the firespray 3 or 4 guns, keep it's manuverability and it might be worth using

Either that or increase the drop rate of disks to 10-100 times it's current value, as it stands the firespray is nothing but a showpeice IMO, the mini-pob idea I think could be very workable, leave all the stats the same but give it an interior and repair panels and it becomes a worthwhile ship.

Think about the pvp implications of a ship that has a group of 2-3 ppl just running around inside repairing everything as you damage it.

If you flew the ship solo, nothing about it would really change, you can still get repairs at a station, so it becomes a very flexible craft






Actually, the key statistic that I was thinking of is:

B-Wing Y/P/R Acceleration: 50/50/30
Firespray Y/P/R Acceleration: 100/100/50



Modus Sienar
Master Shipwright
Master Smuggler (Hope > Logic)
Aced all 9 Squadrons
RedOnedi
Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:54 am
#22

Investment to return ratio - you are absolutely correct, Ralen.


Personally, I think the KSE disk quest should be a one time thing, and once completed, the SW would have the schematic to make as many as they want. The resource requirements should be such that, once completed, the SW would feel inclined to charge 1M-5M credits, so that it retains it's position as a ship that takes some dedication to get...either in terms of getting the disks, or grinding out the cash to buy one.


It's not as if increasing this ship's availability would be unbalancing, as would say, making the Actis craftable. I think SW's would be happy if they could craft KSE's indefinitely, but maybe I'm wrong.


Again, you are absolutely right though...in terms of what it takes to get one on your own, there are muchcheaper (and in some cases, better) alternatives.


Domingo


KajaGrae
Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:23 pm
#23


That's a shame. I still use mine as a fighter/bomber in DS on a regular basis. Kinda fun actually once you get her dubbed out. I may not be able to out manuver a JSF, but I only have to hit her once :-)




KajaGrae


Structural Engineer Extraordinaire
Owner: Tavern of the Nine Aces
1900 165 Fenix Rising, Corellia
Isamu-alva
Wed Sep 21, 2005 12:49 pm
#24

I use mine regularly but you're right, it's not a fighter.

It is a pretty good gunboat and capital ship bomber though.





Gogul - Elder Shipwright & Imperial Ace Pilot

RIP - Isamu-Alva, Radiant
RIP - Michelle, Radiant
RIP - Togusa, Radiant
Alyxian
Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:19 pm
#25






Ducimus wrote:





MasterSad wrote:
Dev's should have implement mass capacity per ship component slot. Then many problems would be resolved with much less struggle.






That is acutally an intresting idea





Yes and no. It would make most ships cookie cutter loadouts. Lets take a Fighter Engine, say, 18k mass.,well you can't fit a cert 8 as 18k mass is the cap, so all fighters are cert 6 Reward RE. Weapons, 20k, so everyone loads Cert 7 RE, and so on.


While this might be ok, it gives a HUGE advantage to pre-nerf parts, just in the DI alone. If I can shunt 3 times to your 1...*shrug*


I still think that what this would do is basically restrict Cert levels to Chassis, and take away from uniqueness. I *like* being the insane bitz with an RG Interceptor packing a cert 10 cannon, a cert 8 Engine,and no shields, with what is being proposed, these sorts of things are not possible.




Alyxian Gorgaan
"Just an honest Trader"
Will Fly for Booze
Ships, Paint, Missiles, Droids, and More!
Shop located in Tal Kyrte on Lok, in the Mall
StarSider
droid327
Wed Sep 21, 2005 1:50 pm
#26






imppilot421 wrote:





droid327 wrote:

Whats the mass on the new elite POB components like? I forget....


I think it would be an equitable arrangement, if you could fit maybe 1-2 POB parts on a Firespray and still have room for standard components in the rest, to count them as "pob compatible" for those parts. If not,maybe give them a little mass boost so they're somewhere between large fighters (~200-250k) and full POBs (5M) They're still rare enough that it wouldnt be overpowered (like the easy-to-get JSF and Belbullab), and youd get to use some railguns or high powered shields to compensate for the sluggish handling and large hitbox to help give some incentive to try and find them.


Like they said, the KSE is not a fighter







Good luck fitting a 250k mass part into a 212k mass fighter (if they don't increase its mass).




thats why i said that Make them, say,750k mass, so you can squeeze in maybe 2 POB guns or a POB gun and shield and still have 250k left to finish out with ordnance and systems


Making mass requirements for component slots is an interesting idea, especially if it were experimentable by the SWs crafting. Get a custom A-wing with enough room to fit your RE Starmap engine, or makemore room for weapons in your Xwing since you know you're only putting your 8800 mass RE prenerf in there anyway Makes for more custom builds and less composite-in-space scenarios.



Jekk Badlander
Lowca
Commando - Rebel Pilot
------------------------------------------------
Factor
Page 2 of 3