Pilot Archive
Thread: PvP Individual Tactics Collection
Halyn
Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:23 pm
#14
Oh, I know it didn't work perfectly on you. But then again, you're a fairly experienced starfighter pilot. Someone a bit newer to the game would have been completely toasted on that deal.
Ramona_Garcia wrote:
Halyn wrote:
Well, teamwork's always good. Teamwork + ambushes = better. Simply put, if you can, get a couple of enemy fighter pilots to trail you. Keep them back about 600 meters so they can't quite hti you, but you're tantalizing close. Then get a declared friend to do a head-to-head with you. More than likely your trailers won't see the new pilot coming until at least of them is vaped.
Only if you go up against noobs. Anyone else is usually scanning for enemy players reflexively. When you pulled this on us we suspected a trap, and we got Vyrm on scope before she got close.
Kitten_Starsider
Fri Apr 22, 2005 1:56 pm
#15
1st_Viduus wrote:
Just popped in to check PM's and this thread caught my eye.
Thanks for linking those threads, and this thread should probably make it to the Academy.
As for missiles:
Fact: Missiles in JtL cannot be avoided by outmaneuvering. Period. Get that idea out of your head...
However... missiles are stupid, no matter what kind they are. They take the shortest path to your trajectory... even to overflying and turning around.
They also travel a static 1000 to 1200 speed... for a total time of (I believe) 30 seconds. So they can be outrun.
A-Wing vs Oppressor launching 3 IR2's... Booster hard, fly spiral DIRECTLY across your opponent and blow him up with his own missiles.
Silly missiles in PvP... :/
Otherwise use some other object/ship in the vicinity.
P.S.:
You can also force an "unclean hit", where the missiles will detonate themselves *where you were* rather than *where you are*... which in effect seems like dodging, but is in fact a latency issue.... combined with some skilled flying
Message Edited by 1st_Viduus on 04-22-2005 04:38 PM
This is some really awesome tips! I'll definately try them out as the idea in the other thread did not work out (at least I was not able to make it). Those tips match my own observations as well 
I updated the post again... sorry, Halyn I did not know where to put you first... hope its okay
Kitten
Kitten_Starsider
Sat Apr 23, 2005 1:40 am
#16
There must be more X-Wing and Tie Oppressor pilots out there!
I am sure there are even some Y-Wing pilots
Kitten
Alyxian
Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:29 am
#17
Oppressor vs A-Wing: Keep your nose to the target, conserve capacitor by laying off the Blasters and hoping they might get cocky thinking you do not see them, wait for tone, unload 3 IR's. Use roll to keep the blaster fire from hitting as often, and be on the CtSS. Once the first volley of IR is loose, keep the nose on the target if you can for second tone and dump another 3 at them. Expensive, 6 IR's for an A-Wing, but if it saves my a$$, the cost is worth it.
There are several good evasive manuvers you can use in the narrow cone you have to get your missile lock, I tend to roll and corckscrew as much as I can in the window I have until the first missile volley is off. By then I am shunting, and peeling off, angling in for the second missile volley if I can. The important part is to lay off the blasters unless the little bugger gets in close, then chop the throttle and get the screw as tight as you can, open up with blasters and hope you can keep the tight turn long enough.
Sorry this is not very detailed, and a bit vague. It is hard to describe reactions that I don't really think about unless they get me killed. Most of the successful stuff is a type of "muscle memory" and I only conciously break it if it gets me vaped
Kitten_Starsider
Sat Apr 23, 2005 3:30 am
#18
Thankies
Adonis and I did some testing on Viduus' tactic today. We did not get it to work even though i managed to survive the missile a bit longer with it as it did not manage to hit me on first pass and only shortly after.
Unfortunately I was never able to totally shake off the missile. I think it crashed twice into adonis but unfortunately it detonated there only graphically while i was hit by its invisible data few moments later 
It is very important that you corkscrew, otherwise the missiles seem to fly faster and thus hit your earlier!
Image rec2 missiles managed to outrun me in all situations though even at my topspeed of 1646 (boosted). The speed of the ship shooting the missiles does not seem to add to the missile speed either.
Edit: Oh... and Adonis suggested that WO does also increase the efficiency of countermeasures. They are pretty much handled like missile launchers and their efficiency rating is also named damage when loaded into the launcher so it would make sense. Most likely when you do over 100 damage then the chance of not getting hit is also 100%.
Kitten
Message Edited by Kitten_Starsider on 04-23-2005 06:34 AM
Combat_Medic_to_be
Sat Apr 23, 2005 4:47 am
#19
I'm very new to pilotting and was wondering if many freelancers PvP. I'm probably going to level CorSec and stay neutral on the ground so that I can fly with anybody at any time however if the Freelance ships aren't too good in PvP I might choose a faction.
Salco
Sat Apr 23, 2005 7:35 am
#20
Hope these insights don't sound too eclectic...
My philosophy on the X-Wing and that third gun is, it's overkill. When I flew an X-Wing, I only used two guns, and used the mass I saved from the third to throw in a big honkin' shield and a big honkin' engine. The end result is that, combined with Weapon Overload 3, I can do more damage than I know what to do with, and still be able to take a ton of abuse. Using only two guns also means that capacitor energy will never be a problem. In conclusion, just because you've got three gun hardpoints, doesn't mean you need to use all of them.
The Kihraxz (correct spelling!) is a beautiful little ship. At 40k mass, it won't be winning any weight-lifting competitions, but it can fly circles around just about anything else. The maneuverability of this ship will be key, due to the fact that the equipment on the ship will be suffering. You'll want the fastest, highest YPR engine you can reasonably put into it. Have a hotkey set up to adjust your throttle to the proper speed to get maximum maneuverability. While in combat, MOVE! Make the ship dance like a Mexican jumping bean. The only way that ship will survive is through mobility. If someone gets on your tail, hit that speed-adjust hotkey and get out of the way; the thing about the Kihraxz is that, because it has such high maneuverability, it's not so unconcievable for it to actually be able to maneuver out of the way. It is, in fact, more maneuverable than an A-Wing or a TIE Interceptor/TIE Advanced. Straight-lining will not work with this ship; squeeze off a few shots, and then get moving. That's all there is to it.
My philosophy on the X-Wing and that third gun is, it's overkill. When I flew an X-Wing, I only used two guns, and used the mass I saved from the third to throw in a big honkin' shield and a big honkin' engine. The end result is that, combined with Weapon Overload 3, I can do more damage than I know what to do with, and still be able to take a ton of abuse. Using only two guns also means that capacitor energy will never be a problem. In conclusion, just because you've got three gun hardpoints, doesn't mean you need to use all of them.
The Kihraxz (correct spelling!) is a beautiful little ship. At 40k mass, it won't be winning any weight-lifting competitions, but it can fly circles around just about anything else. The maneuverability of this ship will be key, due to the fact that the equipment on the ship will be suffering. You'll want the fastest, highest YPR engine you can reasonably put into it. Have a hotkey set up to adjust your throttle to the proper speed to get maximum maneuverability. While in combat, MOVE! Make the ship dance like a Mexican jumping bean. The only way that ship will survive is through mobility. If someone gets on your tail, hit that speed-adjust hotkey and get out of the way; the thing about the Kihraxz is that, because it has such high maneuverability, it's not so unconcievable for it to actually be able to maneuver out of the way. It is, in fact, more maneuverable than an A-Wing or a TIE Interceptor/TIE Advanced. Straight-lining will not work with this ship; squeeze off a few shots, and then get moving. That's all there is to it.
Kitten_Starsider
Sat Apr 23, 2005 11:14 am
#21
Kinda trying to keep this as a tactic thread and less one of the various equipment threads. But then... I don't remember having many X-Wing equipment threads... Mostly Ties and A-Wings...
Kitten
Salco
Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:20 pm
#22
I'm going to be difficult and argue that equipment load out is a tactic. 
psikobunny
Sat Apr 23, 2005 2:30 pm
#23
Here's some Ywing, Ywing Lp,Z95 luv for ya Kitten
The norm in JtL is that these ships are the plague, and abandoned for "better" chassis ASAP. A clever (and mildly unscrupulous) PvP pilot can take avantage of this. Figure out ways to look like a lower tier ship, and a greedy foe will often fall for it. I heard rumors of some Imperials who liked to hover at Naboo Station and challenge Rebel rookies. I mocked up a Z95, with "a bit extra" under the hood, and full overloads, and puttered around at noob speed. With 883 actual unboosted speed, small profile, and great handling, I had a winning record before I took her offline.
The same holds true for Ywings. No one realistically expects a tier4 pilot who "knows his stuff" to be still be using one, but a hasty Oppressor pilot found out to his dismay that I was packing Lvl8 REd gear, could outroll him, and pasted shots into his windscreenwhen he was expecting easy pickings. You gotta love being accused of using missiles when you don't even have them aboard.
This actually ends up being more a maxim for the Imperial pilots than anything else. What you see isn't always what you get, and a dedicated wrenchmonkey can make anything work.
Remilliod
Sun Apr 24, 2005 5:51 am
#24
Salco wrote:
My philosophy on the X-Wing and that third gun is, it's overkill. When I flew an X-Wing, I only used two guns, and used the mass I saved from the third to throw in a big honkin' shield and a big honkin' engine. The end result is that, combined with Weapon Overload 3, I can do more damage than I know what to do with, and still be able to take a ton of abuse. Using only two guns also means that capacitor energy will never be a problem. In conclusion, just because you've got three gun hardpoints, doesn't mean you need to use all of them.
Acyually Salco I would argue the exact opposite.
If you arent using the third gun mount in an X-wing you are wasting the Xs potential.
The third gun mount allows you to use less mass on your guns yet still deliver more firepower.
For example if you were using two RE'd lvl8 reward guns, total max damage is 7750 while using roughly 50k mass (for an average RE job).
If you were to drop one of the lvl8s and move the other to the centreline, then add two RE'd lvl6s:
You would get: 9000 total max damage (with good REing) and you would end up using only 45k mass for all three.
Or you could go 3x lvl6 weapons for 7500 max damage at only 30k mass. Which is nearly the same as the 2x lvl8s in damage but saving 20k mass.
If you think two guns alone is better please post your total mass and firepower for your two guns.
ProCambarus
Sun Apr 24, 2005 7:20 am
#25
I will not miss the opportunity to have a honor to post in the excellent thread of Kitten, one of the most celebrated aces and heroines of Starsider.
X wing general notes
IMO the X wing is among the best PVE fighters in the game. That said anyone going to use an X Wing in PVP has to be constantly aware of its weaknesses and strengths. The single most notable weakness of the XW is the large combat window that makes the XW an easier target than a Y wing. Go to Kessel to check for it yourself, the pirate X wings are turkey shoot compared with anything there. The most important advantage of X Wings in 1vs1 PVP is the slower optimal turning speed and hence the smaller turning radius than of most of the ships with still decent max speed (at a price of horrible acceleration). The slower optimal turning speed starts to get more of a hindrance in 1 vs many as locking/fireing from the distance on your ship is made easyer. It is also essential to get used to the weapon alignment/ spread before engaging on PVP.
General PVP counter tactics in X Wings against multiple enemies:
1. Try to avoid multiple ship mixups by trying to fight at the perimeter of the battle scene. Try hit-and-fade and work as a team with other bulkier fighters waiting in the distance.
2. Find the role of the X wing. Try to pick those targets (like Oppressors, Firesprays that "value" your firepower most. Do not chase them too long, though, think of point 1.
3. If you are in multi ship engagement using boosters very frequently is the only key to your survival to adjust turn radius/speed constantly and to compensate for the relatively poor acceleration.
4. Use 3D maneuvers all the time but remember: with your combat window a barrel roll will not save you from enemy fire.
X wing vs T/I and T/A
1 on 1 a properly equipped X wing has a fairly good chance against a great T/I and might hanle a T/A too. The key is to get to the "inner circle" at optimal turning speed where the T/I or T/A has to turn around you, and you more like point the blasters of your ship toward them. Remember, in the X Wing (depending on the engines) you might have to pitch, yaw and roll (to keep target in diagonal direction) to achieve it, all 3D turning is not to be used for defensive moves only. Be very careful and take the other ships inertia into account, so if it starts to move you towards it's crosshairs, modify course accodingly. Cutting slightly further back more excessive rolling towards their forthcoming vector so setting collision course at 2 seconds with their higher speeds often helps. Remember to chose direction to stay "under" while doing that. T/As are way harder to hit and you might safely forget target aids. I recommend to practice on Tier5 scintilla droid fighters in Endor. Another tactic is using IR2s from the edge of range. However, remember that a T/A might be at your back in a fraction of a second, so 1in1 it is more useful on disrupting it's hit-and-fade tactic when it tries to flee. And remember, with 2 blaster shots and WO4 an X Wing might easily be shot to pieces in 1 or 2 rapid blasts by the T/A.
X Wing vs. Opressors
The key is not to get over-confident against the Opressors. They have more similarities with the X wings in terms of turning characteristics. It is essential that you observe not just where they are abut where they heading to in any moment. With boosters, speed and turning prior the Oppressor you can "get around" the problem and the ship, that provides a generous combat window too.
Have your SDL loaded as well. (Even if my one fails 50% of launches without any explanation).
X wing vs. POB ships
Use boosters and slight changes of vector when charging and do a sweep on the ship.
X wing general notes
IMO the X wing is among the best PVE fighters in the game. That said anyone going to use an X Wing in PVP has to be constantly aware of its weaknesses and strengths. The single most notable weakness of the XW is the large combat window that makes the XW an easier target than a Y wing. Go to Kessel to check for it yourself, the pirate X wings are turkey shoot compared with anything there. The most important advantage of X Wings in 1vs1 PVP is the slower optimal turning speed and hence the smaller turning radius than of most of the ships with still decent max speed (at a price of horrible acceleration). The slower optimal turning speed starts to get more of a hindrance in 1 vs many as locking/fireing from the distance on your ship is made easyer. It is also essential to get used to the weapon alignment/ spread before engaging on PVP.
General PVP counter tactics in X Wings against multiple enemies:
1. Try to avoid multiple ship mixups by trying to fight at the perimeter of the battle scene. Try hit-and-fade and work as a team with other bulkier fighters waiting in the distance.
2. Find the role of the X wing. Try to pick those targets (like Oppressors, Firesprays that "value" your firepower most. Do not chase them too long, though, think of point 1.
3. If you are in multi ship engagement using boosters very frequently is the only key to your survival to adjust turn radius/speed constantly and to compensate for the relatively poor acceleration.
4. Use 3D maneuvers all the time but remember: with your combat window a barrel roll will not save you from enemy fire.
X wing vs T/I and T/A
1 on 1 a properly equipped X wing has a fairly good chance against a great T/I and might hanle a T/A too. The key is to get to the "inner circle" at optimal turning speed where the T/I or T/A has to turn around you, and you more like point the blasters of your ship toward them. Remember, in the X Wing (depending on the engines) you might have to pitch, yaw and roll (to keep target in diagonal direction) to achieve it, all 3D turning is not to be used for defensive moves only. Be very careful and take the other ships inertia into account, so if it starts to move you towards it's crosshairs, modify course accodingly. Cutting slightly further back more excessive rolling towards their forthcoming vector so setting collision course at 2 seconds with their higher speeds often helps. Remember to chose direction to stay "under" while doing that. T/As are way harder to hit and you might safely forget target aids. I recommend to practice on Tier5 scintilla droid fighters in Endor. Another tactic is using IR2s from the edge of range. However, remember that a T/A might be at your back in a fraction of a second, so 1in1 it is more useful on disrupting it's hit-and-fade tactic when it tries to flee. And remember, with 2 blaster shots and WO4 an X Wing might easily be shot to pieces in 1 or 2 rapid blasts by the T/A.
X Wing vs. Opressors
The key is not to get over-confident against the Opressors. They have more similarities with the X wings in terms of turning characteristics. It is essential that you observe not just where they are abut where they heading to in any moment. With boosters, speed and turning prior the Oppressor you can "get around" the problem and the ship, that provides a generous combat window too.
Have your SDL loaded as well. (Even if my one fails 50% of launches without any explanation).
X wing vs. POB ships
Use boosters and slight changes of vector when charging and do a sweep on the ship.
Message Edited by ProCambarus on 04-24-2005 04:29 PM
Salco
Sun Apr 24, 2005 7:36 am
#26
I'm not going to get into a debate about equiping, especially as I don't even use an X-Wing any more. I'll just say that I used two crafted level 7 Blasters with base damage, but 0.27 recharge. The speed definitely made up for the less damage, and being able to out-turn other ships and take more damage was much more important to me than doing just a tad more damage. 'Nuff said, end of story.