Pilot Archive
Thread: Kessel: Privateers don't have auto target ability.
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Martuse
Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:28 am
#14
Kessel, as designed currently, is of great benefit to Freelance Pilots, rather than a hinderance. As it stands, you are able to attack *everything* in the system, rather than just one side or the other, and get the first shot on whatever you choose to attack since npcs do not aggro you until you hit them. The only downside is that when npcs you do not mean to attack get hit, they have a tendency to aggro you on the spot, which means picking a fight with an Advanced and spraying fire might aggro the A-Wing that gets hit by a random shot.
As for targeting, there are enough keymap and /ui options to allow for decent, though not perfect, targeting.
Target Closest Ship of Any Kind. When you are out alone, make a kill, and just want to kill something else, this is great. If any ship is within sensors range, this will catch the closest ship, hostile or not.
/ui action cycleTargetOutward | /ui action cycleTargetInward || These are slash commands, rather than standard keymaps, but you can make a one line macro, then map the macro to a key inside the keymap. These are the best way to cycle around all the targets within a couple klicks of you, especially used with Target Closest Ship of Any Kind. When you want to specifically pick on certain types of ships and leave others alone, and you want to target the closest one, use Target Closest Anything then use CycleOutward and Inward to look at contacts. Outward and Inward are based solely on distance from you, so when cycling this way it is possible to miss ships when relative distances are changing faster than you are cycling. Lastly, Outward and Inward seem to be range limited in that they will cycle through targets within a couple klicks, but will not grab long range targets.
Target Next/Previous Ship of Any Kind. These are best for scanning everything in the sensors range, mostly when you are not in a current fight and are looking for targets at range. They run off of a list, so that if you pass by the target you want, you can use the other command to go back (or forward) in the list to re-acquire it.
Target Closest Enemy Ship. The standard 'Tab' keymap is not without use, for it will typically tell you immediately if any of your nearby group members have picked a fight. If an Alliance pilot hits an Oppressor, the Opp will not show up as hostile to you, making it easier to assist if you want to.
Target Next/Previous Enemy Ship. Less useful, as you should normally have only a few hostile at a time, at most. Not useless, though, as these default 'T' and 'shift-T' keymaps are useful during something like a corvette assault to pick the correct enemy ship to attack (or to track in order to stay away from). I use them to try and quickly find the Aggressors in order take those down first when I attack the fighter escort, for example.
Target Closest Station or Capital Ship. Useful both when attempting to locate a corvette as well as during a corvette assault to quickly learn the distance between you and those turrets, and if you need to back off a little more or can safely maneuver a little closer.
Monsofo, since you're hanging around here and will probably read this....
All this has made me think of the myriad of references in Star Wars where pilots, upon spotting a group of hostiles, assign numbers to them to quickly change from one designated target to another in the middle of a dogfight. As in... when I spot that six fighter Ravager escort, I label the Ravager target 1, the first Agg target 2, and the second Agg target 3, and can then use hotkeys to change targeting to those pre-designates quickly, instead of doing my best to find fighters with Cycle keys and such.
I can immediately think of EU text references, though I haven't watched the movies recently enough to remember examples from those. Also, I believe other SW based space combat sims had support for something like this... I'm thinking XWA did.
As for targeting, there are enough keymap and /ui options to allow for decent, though not perfect, targeting.
Target Closest Ship of Any Kind. When you are out alone, make a kill, and just want to kill something else, this is great. If any ship is within sensors range, this will catch the closest ship, hostile or not.
/ui action cycleTargetOutward | /ui action cycleTargetInward || These are slash commands, rather than standard keymaps, but you can make a one line macro, then map the macro to a key inside the keymap. These are the best way to cycle around all the targets within a couple klicks of you, especially used with Target Closest Ship of Any Kind. When you want to specifically pick on certain types of ships and leave others alone, and you want to target the closest one, use Target Closest Anything then use CycleOutward and Inward to look at contacts. Outward and Inward are based solely on distance from you, so when cycling this way it is possible to miss ships when relative distances are changing faster than you are cycling. Lastly, Outward and Inward seem to be range limited in that they will cycle through targets within a couple klicks, but will not grab long range targets.
Target Next/Previous Ship of Any Kind. These are best for scanning everything in the sensors range, mostly when you are not in a current fight and are looking for targets at range. They run off of a list, so that if you pass by the target you want, you can use the other command to go back (or forward) in the list to re-acquire it.
Target Closest Enemy Ship. The standard 'Tab' keymap is not without use, for it will typically tell you immediately if any of your nearby group members have picked a fight. If an Alliance pilot hits an Oppressor, the Opp will not show up as hostile to you, making it easier to assist if you want to.
Target Next/Previous Enemy Ship. Less useful, as you should normally have only a few hostile at a time, at most. Not useless, though, as these default 'T' and 'shift-T' keymaps are useful during something like a corvette assault to pick the correct enemy ship to attack (or to track in order to stay away from). I use them to try and quickly find the Aggressors in order take those down first when I attack the fighter escort, for example.
Target Closest Station or Capital Ship. Useful both when attempting to locate a corvette as well as during a corvette assault to quickly learn the distance between you and those turrets, and if you need to back off a little more or can safely maneuver a little closer.
Monsofo, since you're hanging around here and will probably read this....
All this has made me think of the myriad of references in Star Wars where pilots, upon spotting a group of hostiles, assign numbers to them to quickly change from one designated target to another in the middle of a dogfight. As in... when I spot that six fighter Ravager escort, I label the Ravager target 1, the first Agg target 2, and the second Agg target 3, and can then use hotkeys to change targeting to those pre-designates quickly, instead of doing my best to find fighters with Cycle keys and such.
I can immediately think of EU text references, though I haven't watched the movies recently enough to remember examples from those. Also, I believe other SW based space combat sims had support for something like this... I'm thinking XWA did.
ok first off when I go to kessel I cannot target ANYTHING, NOTHING AT ALL. Not
psikobunny
Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:19 am
#15
If you're not a noob why'd you post broken 5 times and quote without attribution? Quite often, people hyper in to Kessel in a spot where there is nothing, regardless of what side they are on. It was done that way on purpose, so wild spawns wouldn't loadkill people. We gave you ways to target nonhostile ships, in the assumption that you weren't a noob and could find your way about in a sector on your own. Since it seems you have trouble with that, here's what I do. Use /wayp 0 0 0 /wayp 8000 8000 8000 and /wayp -8000 -8000 -8000. Label them Center Top and Bottom. Use them to get oriented in the big empty, and fly around. Very rarely to any pilots find a target rich spot instantly out there, but it is rare to see a whinge like this about it.
Martuse wrote:
ok first off when I go to kessel I cannot target ANYTHING, NOTHING AT ALL. Not one thing shows up when I use any target macro or key. I am not a noob and you don't have to treat me like one. I am complaining about something that is happening to me in Kessel that I think others may have a problem with also. As I said before the only way I can find any target in Kessel is to group with either faction and wait till they hit a target. When I go alone it is hard for me to find anything without the targetting ability, which leaves me wandering around looking for targets by sight alone.
SheenaBrelya
Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:23 am
#16
Do you mean there are targets, but nothing is coming up as attackable, or that there are no targets to begin with?
If you mean the second (no targets show up) then it's because none of them are close to where you hypered into the sector. Kessel, like all the sectors, is rather large, and you will only be able to target a standard ship from between 2km and 4km away.
What I tend to do is patrol the route between a corvette entry point and it's exit point. I usually find targets, as it is a 20km line from one point to the other, and I also usually get a sign of the corvette shortly after it hypers in.
Let me see..... 16km per side means 4096 km^3 of space. If your sensors are spotting out 5km every direction (which is more than normal, I think) that means you're seeing roughly 520 km^3 of space at any given time. At *most*, you are getting a view of about 1/8th of Kessel, and realistically it's probably closer to 1/20th. Don't get too upset if you can't see everything in Kessel immediately after jumping in.
Shona
Edit: Yeah, what psi said, too. He just managed to post while I was typing
If you mean the second (no targets show up) then it's because none of them are close to where you hypered into the sector. Kessel, like all the sectors, is rather large, and you will only be able to target a standard ship from between 2km and 4km away.
What I tend to do is patrol the route between a corvette entry point and it's exit point. I usually find targets, as it is a 20km line from one point to the other, and I also usually get a sign of the corvette shortly after it hypers in.
Let me see..... 16km per side means 4096 km^3 of space. If your sensors are spotting out 5km every direction (which is more than normal, I think) that means you're seeing roughly 520 km^3 of space at any given time. At *most*, you are getting a view of about 1/8th of Kessel, and realistically it's probably closer to 1/20th. Don't get too upset if you can't see everything in Kessel immediately after jumping in.
Shona
Edit: Yeah, what psi said, too. He just managed to post while I was typing
Message Edited by SheenaBrelya on 03-10-2005 12:24 PM
darmokVtS
Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:31 am
#17
SheenaBrelya wrote:
Kessel, as designed currently, is of great benefit to Freelance Pilots, rather than a hinderance. As it stands, you are able to attack *everything* in the system, rather than just one side or the other,
No.
Only one of the three freelancer squads has this "freedom", the other two are either imperial or rebel aligned and CAN NOT attack ships of the faction their squad is aligned with (which is the only reason why I ever made a freelancer pilot, the possibility to accidently shoot at and damage an imperial ship would be enough to never ever go to space with my freelancer pilot again).
psikobunny
Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:34 am
#18
darmokVtS wrote:
SheenaBrelya wrote:
Kessel, as designed currently, is of great benefit to Freelance Pilots, rather than a hinderance. As it stands, you are able to attack *everything* in the system, rather than just one side or the other,
No.
Only one of the three freelancer squads has this "freedom", the other two are either imperial or rebel aligned and CAN NOT attack ships of the faction their squad is aligned with (which is the only reason why I ever made a freelancer pilot, the possibility to accidently shoot at and damage an imperial ship would be enough to never ever go to space with my freelancer pilot again).
No.
Two of the three are free range, the RSF is the only limited one.
Martuse
Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:38 am
#19
My settings on the domain controller were screwed up at the time I was writing the message and I didn't know it at the time. I am in class atm setting up a lab assignment and things tend to go wrong when you are playing with settings in microsoft. The answer to everyones question for the third time is nothing can be targeted using any target command unless the thing I wish to target is attacking a group member that happens to be from either faction. If this posts 5 times it is due to a replication problem I still haven't fixed in security settings and policies. I hate crappy test versions of microsoft they are never complete and never work as they are supposed to in these stupid class assignments.
Dorjhe
Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:42 am
#20
Never have had this problem and I'm a privateer. Smuggler's Alliance. I can target and kill anything in the sector. The rebs and Imps are both yellow meaning I have to target under reticle. Fine with me I get to pick my targets and initiate combat. My bet would be you have gone to deepspace at least twice once imp and once reb. It's a bug that sticks you with that faction in kessel. The question is Are the rebs and imps yellow or white? If white I assume the deepspace bug. If yellow there should be no problem. Just target them, and not "Target closest enemy" you have none as a nuetral pilot.
CNevyn
Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:53 am
#21
psikobunny wrote:
Use them to get oriented in the big empty, and fly around. Very rarely to any pilots find a target rich spot instantly out there, but it is rare to see a whinge like this about it.
LOL! I like it, Psi. The big empty.
As for the origional poster, I'm beginning to see a pattern here. First it's SOE's fault, now it's Microsoft's. Accountability? You've been supplied with a vast and creative array of solutions to your problem. Pick one, remap accordingly, then go learn your new map. I would add the suggestion that you might make your own printed template to refer to until you learn it. (Was a boon to me when I first configured my speedpad.)
SheenaBrelya
Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:56 am
#22
Martuse wrote:The answer to everyones question for the third time is nothing can be targeted using any target command unless the thing I wish to target is attacking a group member that happens to be from either faction.
This appears to be a problem you are having, rather than a problem everyone is having. I don't say that to be mean, I say it to point out that you need to give us as much detail as possible to help us understand exactly what is happening to you, what you are seeing, what you are doing, and what is changing when you are in a group. Without more details, I can't understand what the problem is, besides... 'nothing can be targeted.' Does that mean nothing shows up on the radar when you set it to max distance? Nothing is there to target? Targets are there but can not be targeted? Targets are there, and can be targeted, but can't be attacked? Are ships not drawing on your screen until a friend attacks one? If you stay close to a factioned friend, what do you see when they attack a ship?
I didn't mean to treat you like a 'noob.' Hell, once I got into typing out my thoughts on targeting functions.... I just didn't want to stop.
I still don't know, though, if you are complaining about a lack of targets, a lack of attackable targets, or some bug that you are experiencing that I can not relate to.
Shona
Message Edited by SheenaBrelya on 03-10-2005 12:57 PM
psikobunny
Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:40 pm
#23
Dorjhe wrote:
Never have had this problem and I'm a privateer. Smuggler's Alliance. I can target and kill anything in the sector. The rebs and Imps are both yellow meaning I have to target under reticle. Fine with me I get to pick my targets and initiate combat. My bet would be you have gone to deepspace at least twice once imp and once reb. It's a bug that sticks you with that faction in kessel. The question is Are the rebs and imps yellow or white? If white I assume the deepspace bug. If yellow there should be no problem. Just target them, and not "Target closest enemy" you have none as a nuetral pilot.
Even if this were the case and they were all white dot, he'd be able to Target under reticle, or use ' to cycle through everything. We've given options, not our fault he won't use them.
psikobunny
Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:58 pm
#24
Washell wrote:
As for factional alignment, that comes in to play with overt/deep space andthe master missions. RSF only allows to enter as imperial, SA allows only rebel and CorSec is the real neutral and allows you both. Not declaring before entering Kessel means you can shoot everything.
Sorry Washell, this passage is confusing and misleading.
To clarify, once and for all, the breakdown of Neutrals only applies to two things: the Master missions, and the ability of the RSF todamage Imperials. SAlliance can target both sides and neither side is aggro, even when they are tracked into the Rebel master missions. Corsec can choose master missions, but can target either side normally. RSF is locked out of shooting Imperials from the very beginning, and does the Imperial master missions.
An SAlliance Ace can go to Deep Space on either side and so can Corsec, I am unsure of RSF. I think the only way to get a particular side's NPCs to appear aggro to you, is to be a member of a ground faction, and go Overt at a faction space station. However that is the only way to affect your targeting options.
Even if you are a Neutral pilot and fall victim to the Deep Space/Kessel bug, you should be able to target and find the ships using the alternatives we've provided. The bug effects the ability to damage them, not find them.
Edit- changed one instance of "target" to "damage" for accuracy.
Message Edited by psikobunny on 03-10-2005 04:59 PM
Washell
Fri Mar 11, 2005 1:39 am
#25
You can't target until a factional aligned group mate is attacked. Hmm, that would mean that at that instant the target becomes hostile to the whole group and then you can target it.
That sounds like you're only using next, previous and/or nearest enemy target. If you want to target them when they haven't attacked a group mate yet, or when you're solo, you'll need to use next, previous, nearest friendly and/or target under reticle. I've been all 3 freelancers, never had a problem either finding targets and targeting them.
As for factional alignment, that comes in to play with overt/deep space andthe master missions. RSF only allows to enter as imperial, SA allows only rebel and CorSec is the real neutral and allows you both. Not declaring before entering Kessel means you can shoot everything.
The other solution is simply to declare yourself overt before going to kessel, making you thus factional aligned.
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